Question for carb experts

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

It is difficult for the untrained eye to differentiate between engines of this period as there is and was so much interchangeability.

You do some nice work. Are you a past tech or just advanced hobbyist?

Regretting taking this thread a little farther off track, but you asked...

Yes they can be hard to tell apart. But Ford was making changes each year, if you know what to look for. When I was first trying to figure out what's what in engine parts this was my go-to website/link... http://www.ford-y-block.com/technical.htm
Here's another helpful one... http://www.y-block.info/main.html

The block & heads that were in the car (photos 1 & 2) gave the initial impression of being correct for the year '55 (freeze/core plugs in the ends of the heads) even tho the intake manifold and distributor were both '57 versions, a common upgrade.
But the EBY ('54 Merc 256) casting number on the block and heads was a dead giveaway (photos #3 & 4) along with 272/312 spark plugs not fitting in the heads.

Thanks for the compliment but it's been a trial and error (and error & error) process since this is my first pre 70's Ford, and my first project car in about 30 years.
This retirement project of mine has been dragging on a bit too long due to some large honey-do's around here and medical problems with other family members, but it's almost done, at least under the hood.

In a valiant attempt to re-rail this 'carburetor' thread the carb in the 2nd photo was an Autolite for a '63 T-Bird 390ci, and the Holley in the last 2 photos is an (ECZ) List# 1273, oem for a '57 312.

[Herman Munster]

I read there were 4 different types of my carb for 1957. Since the tag is missing from it is there still a way to figure out which one it could be?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I read there were 4 different types of my carb for 1957. Since the tag is missing from it is there still a way to figure out which one it could be?

Can you show a photo?

EDIT-

I expect this statement to cause some controversy but I had a 57 312 (my first of many) that had the 4000 on it (and the install appeared OEM - no butcher work - why would anyone retrofit). I didn't know what L-O-M was back then (1968). I am trying to find my 57 Service Manual to verify this.

So the 57 used the-

1) FORD 4100

2) CARTER AFB

3) HOLLEY 4150

4) HOLLEY 4000 (possibly).

[Herman Munster]

KULTULZwhat I meant was that there were four listings for the Ford 4100 carb, B7A-B. B7A-X, ECZ-U andECZ-Z. I found that mine is a ECZ-Z. These letters were stamped on the body of the carb. I think this might narrow down what Ford it was specific to.
The only thing I could find so far using the teapot in 57 were 312 T-birds with superchargers and twin quads.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

KULTULZ- what I meant was that there were four listings for the Ford 4100 carb, B7A-B. B7A-X, ECZ-U and ECZ-Z. I found that mine is a ECZ-Z. These letters were stamped on the body of the carb. I think this might narrow down what Ford it was specific to.

Yes, it should.

I will be back ...

[KULTULZ]

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ECZ-Z

1957 FORD 312 F/M 4100

Service PN B7A 9510-Z R/B B7AE 9510-A

Note: 1F - Stamped ID Located On Fuel Bowl

According to TEXT, ID TAGS were not used until the 1959 Model Year.

[Herman Munster]

That's why there isn't any tag on the carb. I thought it was missing. The text in the book was a little confusing saying some earlier service models had a tag.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

That's why there isn't any tag on the carb. I thought it was missing. The text in the book was a little confusing saying some earlier service models had a tag.

There may have been I.D. Tags used before, but this is what the FORD MPC says for the period (and they have been incorrect and/or wrong before).

If you notice, even later carbs that came through tagged usually had I.D. Info stamped somewhere on the carb.

...some earlier service models had a tag

This is another gotcha...

Service usually describes a later SERVICE PART REPLACEMENT whereas FACTORY ASSEMBLY PART means what came through from the factory.

This is why (to me anyways) that repair/restoration is so in-concise as all factory info may not be complete and/or incorrect and many that decipher may understand it incorrectly or display it incorrectly which then leads to hearsay issues.

One reason I never tried for an OEM CORRECT RESTORATION (other than $$$) as assemblies can differ from one assembly plant to another and among suppliers.

Much less, I am already OCD so one would most likely drive me over the edge...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Here's my air cleaner. I don't know why the 2nd photo uploaded rotated. It appears normally on my computer.

That ACL is 1958 and up.

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

This is my carb and manifold.

Have you been able to modify your 1957 4100 yet? Below are three shots I found with the ECZ-B Intake and a 1966 4100.

I have not been able to find a photo of a 57 312 4100 OEM install yet. All I can figure is that the heater control valve (18495) was moved to the heater hose inlet (@ water pump)and the outlet was connected to the intake with an elbow fitting) as was the 1955 272.

[5851a]

Did 57 have a heat control valve? I had a 58 with 332 and don't remember a heat control valve anywhere. May have been removed but it didn't have any extra cables or vacuum lines. Just assumed they controlled temp from 57 year forward on cars with a blend door in the heater box.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 5851a

Did 57 have a heat control valve? I had a 58 with 332 and don't remember a heat control valve anywhere. May have been removed but it didn't have any extra cables or vacuum lines. Just assumed they controlled temp from 57 year forward on cars with a blend door in the heater box.

Yes. That is what is being discussed here, the placement of the heater control valve and fitment of the 1957 FORD unique 4100 carburetor.

See the dia below. The actual control valve (18495 and 18502) was placed inside the heater core box for 1958. Notice the call-out on the description @ the bottom of the Ill, 57/58.

This opens another quandary, was the 57 4100 carb equipped YB's control valve moved into the heater control box?

The 312 8V intake had a separate outlet coolant supply cast into the intake.

[Oldmics]

Kultulz

Your illustration of the heater is the same as found in the 57 Ford shop manual.

Valve was inside heater cavity.

Oldmics

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

I'm attempting the "period correct upgrade" route with a '55 Bird.
or at least a bit more like it should have been than when I bought it.

While I can definitely appreciate a car that's 'original', I'm not that hung up on it unless something is represented as what it isn't.

(like the engine in a certain car that was listed in 3 unrelated places as a 292, but was a 256)

Let me attempt to qualify myself...

What you are doing is fine. You are keeping it period correct w/o attempting restoration. It's a driver, correct?

What gets me when the hood is popped on a nice looking FORD is seeing a Mr. GASKET ACL HEI DIST, STANT RADIATOR CAP. DIE-HARD BAT and a JIFFY-LUBE OIL FILTER all entangled in cut-up wiring harnesses...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert the early type Autolite 4100 to use a the later model accelerator pump. The older type uses a longer accelerator pump and the latter a shorter type.

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

Did you mention somewhere while showing your air cleaner that you were having difficulty finding the correct replacement element?

Or am I hallucinating again..

[Herman Munster]

Yes, none of the elements are tall enough. I used a few websites that provided filter dimensions to cross reference one that came close which is how I found the Desoto filter. It still isn't a perfect fit.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

Did you mention somewhere while showing your air cleaner that you were having difficulty finding the correct replacement element?

Or am I hallucinating again..

1958 thru sometime in 1964, the pump covers looked like the picture you posted. 1957 was the first and only year they were "super extended". Starting in late '64 they had an even shorter cover.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Yes, none of the elements are tall enough. I used a few websites that provided filter dimensions to cross reference one that came close which is how I found the Desoto filter. It still isn't a perfect fit.

It appears to me the ACL is 1958/ style.

It takes C3VY 9601-A. The measurements are in the text below.

-AIR FILTER CROSSING GUIDE-

Let me know if they sound correct.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

]

Originally Posted by scicala

1958 thru sometime in 1964, the pump covers looked like the picture you posted. 1957 was the first and only year they were "super extended". Starting in late '64 they had an even shorter cover.

Sal

What I was attempting to get across Sal (not too well it seems) is the 1957 (and 58/60) fuel inlet castings on the fuel bowl were extended so as to add to the interference with the 1957 FYB intake mounted heater control valve.

With concentrated ciphering, I found I was wrong and the extended fuel inlet casting was dropped on the 1961 model. The 2nd pump change was in 1964/1965 it seems. I remember selling Accel Pump Diaphrams (C4AZ 9B559-A) that included an extension pin so as to be able to be used with either post 1957 style.

[Herman Munster]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

It appears to me the ACL is 1958/ style.

It takes C3VY 9601-A. The measurements are in the text below.

-AIR FILTER CROSSING GUIDE-

Let me know if they sound correct.

I'll have to remeasure the inside of the ACL to see which one of those measurements come the closest. There is a possibility the ACL is from a Edsel but I think I had checked the Edsel filters and none matched up.
I've even checked Lincoln and Mercury in the past and got no match. I am nearly 100% I have a Ford produced ACL.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I'll have to remeasure the inside of the ACL to see which one of those measurements come the closest. There is a possibility the ACL is from a Edsel but I think I had checked the Edsel filters and none matched up.
I've even checked Lincoln and Mercury in the past and got no match.

I am nearly 100% I have a Ford produced ACL.

No, it is definitely FORD, but a style used from 1958 until 1964 on all car lines.

A 1957 ACL is shown below 1st - 1958 ACL 2nd - Yours 3rd.

See the similarity?

I also gave a PN cross-over so you can find an aftermarket filter. What is the ratio, so many gallons of air to a gallon of gasoline?