Frozen Distributor 351 Windsor (69)

[malloyjp]

Ok so to make sure I'm understanding your recommendation. I should get a large drift punch (a brass tool correct ? ) and hold that against the part around the top where the vacuum advance screws go, and whack the punch sideways to get some turning force. And at the same time have someone else pry up on it. This prying part is a little confusing because the shape of the distributor doesn't lend itself to getting much prying leverage. I can get a screwdriver in at the base but not sure that's going to pry hard enough. If you can just add some specifics to best prying method and tool that would be great. Thanks again !

[Ford blue blood]

Yes to the drift punch (start with smaller whacks first then increase if no joy with turning), pry on the intake runner and the bottom of the fat part of the housing that the cap fastens down on.

[LOWRIDER]

Originally Posted by malloyjp

Ok so to make sure I'm understanding your recommendation. I should get a large drift punch (a brass tool correct ? ) and hold that against the part around the top where the vacuum advance screws go, and whack the punch sideways to get some turning force. And at the same time have someone else pry up on it. This prying part is a little confusing because the shape of the distributor doesn't lend itself to getting much prying leverage. I can get a screwdriver in at the base but not sure that's going to pry hard enough. If you can just add some specifics to best prying method and tool that would be great. Thanks again !

That's why I suggested using a "lady slipper" bar to pry up on the dist. With the right size bar you can pry up on the dist. where it will pry under the bowl of the dist. and give a more upward prying force. The heel of the bar will rest on the intake manifold and the tip of the bar will contact the bowl of the dist. near the center.

[56 Mercer]

Wow, sounds like you have made great progress. You have obviously broken the grip that the two seized surfaces had on each other. Now the trick is just to get all surfaces lubricated. Moving the thing in any direction will only help you, a steady shot of lubricant is needed as well. That movement will allow the lubricant to find a way to creep down.

Ford blue blood is exactly right steady not overwhelming pressure and movement will do the job. As far as moving the distributor up, not a problem but be prepared for it to come out. Maybe not out of the manifold but it could possible jump out of the gear. Putting it back is not a big deal but make sure you understand how to find Top Dead Center (TDC) on piston number one. Side to side movement will get you there as well but it will for sure take more work to get it easily movable. You seem to be at a point where it is a question of how deep do you want the learning experience to go.

Pulling the distributor out setting it on the bench cleaning it up and getting it in new condition is probably the option that will guarantee the least problems in the future with the engine and your knuckles. However if the mission is to get it started then figure out what you are dealing with then maybe you want to take that into consideration also.

[ford3]

a little info on why the dist is stuck, the dist body has a rubber oil ring on it to stop oil from leaking past the dist, over time and heat causes the rubber oil ring to vulcanise to the shaft and the hole in the manifold, the oil ring will stick to the dist and manifold just like a hot patch on a tire tube

[malloyjp]

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I'm working solo at night after work, so prying and tapping at same time not possible right now. So for now i am tapping and prying not at the same time. On weekend I can probably find a helper. I don't own a brass drift punch but am looking into it. I am still soaking in ATF/acetone and tapping the vacuum advance boss with the wood handle of a wire brush between hammer and boss. The good news is I am now certain that it has turned clockwise with the tapping. I set up some markings and can see its moved a bit more. I don't have room to tap it counterclockwise and its still pretty stuck. i have had no luck getting it to budge with any other method than the tapping/hammer. Anyone know how much it needs to turn to advance the timing 6 or 7 degrees. Like I said I've never done any of this before and don't know how easily an unfrozen distributor turns. Is it feasible to get a 45 year old distributor that has been stuck like this for years to move easily in both directions without a hammer ? Thanks again , your detailed advice is helping. I have been messing with this for probably 2 months and since I joined this forum it has finally started to move.

[ford3]

the dist shoud move back and forth pretty easy with your hand when its free and clean, my advice is to get the engine at tdc on # 1piston, remove cap and notice where rotor is pointed,at a manifold bolt or some other object, put a line or mark where rotor is pointed, so now when dist is installed just have the rotor point at the mark you made, also make a mark on some thing that the vacuum hose connection points to, that will get you very close to the right advance, if the dist wont go all the way down, some time it will stay up a half inch, that's because the dist shaft hasn't found the oil pump shaft slot or hexagone shaft that drives the dist, if that happens make sure the dist gear is meshed with the cam gear,try to turn the rotor if it wont turn your started in the cam gear, now turn the engine over by hand till the dist drops all the way in the hole, back engine up till the rotor is pointing at your mark, after that finish putting every thing on the dist, tighten the dist hold down clamp just tight enough so the dist wont turn when you start engine to time it with your timing lite, turn dist to get the right advance ,then finish tightening the dist hold down clamp. and go back and edit your profile, add a city and state , maybe some one lives close to you and may be able to stop by and give you a hand and some advice

[malloyjp]

Great news ! I am now able to turn it in both directions with a vise grip pliers attached to the shaft. I started prying up on it with a 33 inch pry bar like you guys said , I leaned into it pretty good , it didn't pop out but was more raised at the base afterwards. I kept soaking it and tapping it every day and add prying to that routine over the last couple of days. Finally some real progress tonight. I've been soaking the base in 50/50 ATF/acetone and I also mixed up 50/50 marvel mystery oil/acetone and used that about every 3rd soak. You guys are awesome. This has been a real ordeal started a couple months ago when i realized my car was not timed properly. this car has basically been sitting for 20 years. I learned a ton. The thing that made it really tricky for me was having an a/c car. Had absolutely no room to work until I got the ac belt pulleys and compressor out of the way. Now I have the fun of putting it all back together. I am going to continue to work it back and forth . I want to see how freely I can get it to turn.

[ford3]

keep turning the dist while you pry up, it will never come out by just turning

[malloyjp]

Do you guys recommend pulling it out ? My goal was to be able to set the timing and now that it's turning I should be able. Is that shortsighted ? Is there a benefit to pulling it out that I'm missing ? Thanks !

[56 Mercer]

Where are you with this Boss? In other words are you attempting to get it running, and then develop a punch list of what is needed to get it where you want it to be. If you consider this a keeper or a fun for now car, I would pull it, inspect it and make a decision on repair or replace.

I understand that if you have never pulled one before it can be a bit overwhelming to think about. But in reality it is not as hard to get it back in as it sounds like it would be. 40cpe started you out on the right path for this early in this thread, find TDC.

You may have to pull spark plugs to roll the engine over by hand, you can find TDC through the plug hole or pull a valve cover (google it, videos and explanations are available).

When you have it at TDC then clean and mark your harmonic balancer with paint, crayon, chalk or something easy to see. This will also help you in tuning it later as well.

Next make sure your Distributor cap is on correctly and the plug wires are correct as well. This will tell you where cylinder number one is, if it is not marked on the cap mark it, then mark the distributor housing where number one is as well.

Now pull the cap and the rotor should be pointing to or near the mark you made on the housing for number one.

Next clean up any AFT and stuff on the distributor shaft and manifold then mark both to give you a point of alignment when reinstalling the distributor.

Remove the hold down clip and work the thing out, if something rotates the engine you can realign your marks on the harmonic balancer when you need to before you reinstall or replace.

ford3 gave you a great play by play on reinstalling on 8/5/2014.

[malloyjp]

The car was running before all of this. That's how I knew it was not timed correctly. the timing light showed it retarded to 0 degrees or possibly even 1 degree atdc, and it should be 6 degrees btdc per specs. So I think I was missing out on a lot of power and the emissions were bad. I'm hoping setting the timing will cure some of this. When it ran last the dwell meter was reading right where it should at 29 per the specs. So considering it's a running car and my goal was to advance the timing to 6 degrees , I think I will continue to loosen the distributor to see how much more I can get it to freely turn. Once I see how it's running I can always go back to pulling it. It's not a show car or anything like that, but one of the things I like about it is under the hood it's very original. If it came to replacing, what do you guys think. Is it better to just get a new one (pertronix/MSD) or get another stock autolite. I'm really not sure how available the autolites are. Any experience with upgrading to electronic ignition on the stock autolite ? like one of these pertronix devices that sits in the stock distributor instead of points. Not sure if the stock coil works with these upgrades. But if the cars tend to run much better with the newer stuff, I'm curious to know. Thanks,

Joe

[ford3]

points will do very well for what you want, the electronic stuff can be very tempermental and at times very unreliable, I would not go that way unless you plan on building a stout engine and racing it, as you said you just want to get the engine running for now, and pull the dist later as you get more experience, so go for it, just set the points and timing, clean and reset the plugs

[56 Mercer]

I agree, if it is not a restore or fix up time it with the points and drive it.

[LOWRIDER]

You should be able to run it at 10btdc with no problems, 12 if it's an automatic trans. That's where everyone's been setting them for years on stock Fords. Customers used to bring in their new cars complaining of no power & running rough. About all we did was advance it to 10/12 degrees.

[malloyjp]

That's interesting Lowrider, thanks for sharing. I have an automatic. Sounds like I might have more of a power gain than I thought , I will try it.

[bobss396]

This is for real and I saw it work. I was working in a shop around 1977 and we had a Ford with a 390 in it for a tune up. Same deal, distributor would not move.

The mechanic let the engine get real hot, then blasted the base of the distributor with a CO2 fire extinguisher, of course masking off the area with shop towels. From there, it turned with very little effort.

[malloyjp]

that's awesome about the fire extinguisher story. Mine was so stuck and getting access to it was a major issue with having AC. I kept turning it last night and it's totally free now. When it finally really freed the atf/acetone mix turned black, so something nasty finally broke loose. I can now turn it by hand. Amazing. Was a long time coming. You guys telling me to pry up on it I think was the trick because once it was a little raised at the base, it finally started moving with the hammer on the vacuum advance molding (I wouldn't call it tapping a little harder than that), then I got a stillson pipe wrench in there for turning the shaft, then with vise grips on the shaft, and now by hand. Major breakthroughs since I joined this forum. You guys are awesome. I am a believer in ATF/Acetone mix too.

[bobss396]

I would pull the thing out, clean up everything and put it back with a smear of never-seize on the contact surfaces.

[malloyjp]

I think I will try to pull it out. I want to see what I've been wrestling with. Does it usually just easily come right out by hand , I noticed there is now play on it if I pull up but the gears are still engaged. I know marking where rotor is important for putting it back in right. I hope this is a simple procedure of just lifting up by hand.