Unusual holes in dipper tray (to me)

[1crosscut]

I have a dipper tray that has four holes in it that I have not run across until now. They are on the flat area above the dipper trays so it would not interfere with the amount of oil retained in them. Looks like they would keep oil from building up the 1/4" or so on top of the tray necessary to "get over" the upward crimp at the edges of the tray. Would having this in an engine give anyone heartburn to use it?

[Kurt in NJ]

Late in 31 they added a shield around the oil pump, lowered the tray some and started playing with adding holes, several versions and continued into the "B" engine

[Synchro909]

Yeh, I have a B engine laying about in pieces and the dipper tray has those holes in it.

[1crosscut]

Thanks for the information. I thought that they looked to be factory issue.

[Bob Bidonde]

Those hole assure that sufficient oil returns to the sump of the oil pan.

[Benson]

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[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

I have a dipper tray that has four holes in it that I have not run across until now. They are on the flat area above the dipper trays so it would not interfere with the amount of oil retained in them. Looks like they would keep oil from building up the 1/4" or so on top of the tray necessary to "get over" the upward crimp at the edges of the tray. Would having this in an engine give anyone heartburn to use it?

These type holes and other varieties were put in the dipper trays when making a full pressure oil system....if the dipper tray was even kept.

Have never seen a 'stock' tray opened up with such holes, but that doesn't mean that Ford didn't do any such.

[Mikeinnj]

From James Rogers :

Left to right, Model A standard, Model B late & 33/up , Model B early and, owner modified Model A. Notice the smaller holes in the owner modified and uneven spacing. Also, there are 2 different Model A common trays, one with a long front lip and, one with a short lip. These are interchangeable throughout all years.

Mike in NJ

[1crosscut]

Mike thanks for sharing. The one that I have must be early Model B then.

[SAXBY2]

Didn't some of the late '31 lowered trays not have the holes in the flat areas ?
Those started in the '32 engines with a different oiling set up ?
Please advise.

[Joe K]

And the hole exist at the "upper level" of the pan. They don't affect in any way pooling of the oil in the "low spots" for the crank scoops in the pan.

They MIGHT allow more oil to pass below and relieve some of the hydraulic flow adjacent to the crank casing "seal" (being generous here) and alleviate somewhat the tendency to "rear main leak."

Of course Ford also added a "shield" to the oil pump "pass through" in July 1931 when they lowered the pan 1/8" by moving the groove/indents. Shield a move exactly converse to adding holes?

Best said "they were playing around with it?"


Joe K

[Gene F]

Good info. The photo makes this very easy to understand.

[duke36]

Our late '31 lowered tray has no holes. Assuming at the time before the B engine, excess oil could flow from the flat areas to / and help collect at the dipper troughs rather than down into the pan. Again assuming this was in a non pressured system to the bearings.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by duke36

Our late '31 lowered tray has no holes. Assuming at the time before the B engine, excess oil could flow from the flat areas to / and help collect at the dipper troughs rather than down into the pan. Again assuming this was in a non pressured system to the bearings.

In real life, the dipper tray troughs probably don't exceed half full - the oil is "splashed out" by the rods - that is the point of splash lubrication.

As you stop the engine, oil by nature tends to collect in the troughs: when you "change" the oil, you empty the oil pan but nearly a full quart of oil remains in the dipper tray

Many are not pleased with that thought - the point of changing the oil was to replace it with CLEAN oil. So they drill a small hole in each of the bottom of the troughs which given a couple of minutes causes the oil to return by gravity to the pan. Voila a more complete oil change.

And many don't drill, but have the pinholes provided by natural corrosion.

It probably doesn't make that much difference in any case. Wear on the engine is more a function of operation time than a function of oil cleanliness.

"Synthetic oils" DO extend the time (more slippery, less friction) but a previous discussion of exactly WHERE you want your sludge to collect enters in. Synthetics are ALL detergent oil.

Joe K

[Kurt in NJ]

If the center cam bearing clearances are .004 the area of the clearance is about the same as the oil feed pipe into the valve chamber, the oil pump shield directs this leakage onto the dipper tray
My thoughts on the holes in the tray and the shield — dump all the oil pumped onto the tray to make sure there is enough to fill the troughs, the holes at the edges are to prevent too much oil on the tray when the engine is at angles that slow the flow off the rear of the tray.
Too much oil on the tray will get churned up, increase oil out of the breather and past the rings.

[Bob Bidonde]

Does anyone have a copy of drawing A-6688 Oil Pan Tray?

[duke36]

I've been trying to understand with the lowered tray and the added oil pump shield if the holes were added later due to the shield blocking flow back to the pan bottom ; or some other reason such as stated above or whether the troughs got too much oil hence Ford's attempt to reduce oil consumption as on pg. 576 of the Service Bulletins.. It would seem if a tray was used without holes (like ours), the oiling system wouldn't be compromised or parts starved for oil.

Attached is the Parts Book drawing which lists the A- number replaced with the
B-6688 no. I see no flat area holes in the dwg as of 12-20-32 printing which may not imply that holes were not added during production runs.

[Gene F]

Years ago, when I got my car it had a tray like shown in Mike's photo above "Model B late & 33/up". As best we could tell that engine had never been apart. The thing really never threw oil out the breather. This last engine I took that tray to the rebuilder. His shop does nothing but rebuild collector car engines all day long. 4 guys, and a secretary. My tray was just slightly different, but very much the same. He said Henry Ford used my tray for only a short time, maybe a month or two, and then quit using them for some unknown reason. My rebuilder did not want to use that tray, so we did not.