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Old 04-22-2015, 03:57 PM   #1
Vic in E-TN
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Question Adjustable Drag Link

I was taking apart a front end assembly today and came across an interesting drag link. It looked like one end was cut off and one of the ends from a tie rod was threaded on. This would make the drag link adjustable for length. I have not seen anything like this before or in the restoration books.

Ten or 15 years ago I purchased a couple of adjustable drag links that had a turnbuckle arrangement in the middle so you could adjust the length and center the steering wheel. I have not seen them in the catalogs recently.

Has anyone else seen one of these drag links with one end that has a tie rod end threaded on?

Thanks,
Vic
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Seen? I've made a few like that.
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

A couple years ago an article about how to make one by Wiley Higgins (sp) was in the MAFCA newsletter

This is what I could find

http://modelafordclub.co.nz/wp-conte...Box-Aug-11.pdf

..

Last edited by Joop; 04-22-2015 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Joop:
Thanks for the article.

Vic
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Will this work if using a shorten pitman arm?
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:20 PM   #6
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TDO:
It definitely will.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I made one for my car using a stock drag link, cut and threaded it (one end LH and the other RH) and used the sleeve from a GMC pickup. I threaded the LH end in the lathe before I cut it in half. I also have a shortened pitman arm.
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

When I was young I decided to try and cut some left hand threads. After about a day and half I finally figured it out. I was so frustrated I was even working between the wall and lathe and my grandfather would walk by and start laughing. I know, its actually easy once you figure it out. But, until then,,,,,,

I had kind of a similar experience learning to weld. I don't need no stinking helmet !
Ever have a doctor peel your eyes like an onion ?
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

They are not only adjustable for length but can be used for Right hand drive cars OR left hand drive - Do any of our usual suppliers still make them?
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
I had kind of a similar experience learning to weld. I don't need no stinking helmet !
Ever have a doctor peel your eyes like an onion ?
Never did that but have you ever got a "sunburn" from wearing a white T-shirt while heli-arc welding?

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 12-16-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

John, --- the last supplier here that had them was Sacramento Vintage Ford, they have now discontinued them, they sold for $160 --- I made mine using a used draglink, and this coupler, if you want it I have a spare I could bring home in Sept, probably cost a few pints --- LOL.
Regards Brian.
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

drag link 001.JPG all new cnc machined $140.00 + shipping. inc guts.

drag link 002.JPG
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Old 04-23-2015, 04:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Attachment 221698 all new cnc machined $140.00 + shipping. inc guts.

Attachment 221699
But does it come with the turtle sandbox?
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Old 04-23-2015, 04:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Joop,
Thanks for the link to the drag link article.
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Never did that but have you ever got a "sunburn" from wearing a white T-shirt while heli-arc welding?

I production welded my way thru college. Got many a sunburn. Plus whenever it rained the shop flooded, your hair would stand right up straight.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:35 AM   #16
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

An outfit called Auto Care and Restoration in Redding California used to sell one for $48 exchange about 20 years ago.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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I production welded my way thru college. Got many a sunburn. Plus whenever it rained the shop flooded, your hair would stand right up straight.
It's amazing just how quickly welding can burn you skin. One night I spent a couple hours building a towbar, and the next day my arms and neck were sunburned.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I remember seeing a couple of adjustable drag links in the Swap Meet section.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

See "Machine Girls" entry number 12
I bought one of these when the shortened pitman arm resulted in full lock one way and not the other.
Being able to adjust the length of the drag link solved the problem.
It's a quality product
Keith
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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See "Machine Girls" entry number 12
I bought one of these when the shortened pitman arm resulted in full lock one way and not the other.
Being able to adjust the length of the drag link solved the problem.
It's a quality product
Keith
I have one of these from the same supplier. I will be putting it on with the short pittman arm whenever I get my truck out of jail [ie: off site storage while my garage is otherwise occupied]
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Old 12-16-2016, 03:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joop View Post
A couple years ago an article about how to make one by Wiley Higgins (sp) was in the MAFCA newsletter

This is what I could find

http://modelafordclub.co.nz/wp-conte...Box-Aug-11.pdf

..
I think this article is a bit misleading. Changing the length of the drag link is not the best way to set up the steering /alignment.

Here is a quote from the link:
[I]Aligning the Model A Gemmer Steering Gear for Straight Ahead Driving by Wiley Higgins; Cumming, GA
If your Model A is equipped with a Gemmer 2-tooth steering gear, the steering wheel should make a perfect “X” when you drive the Model A straight ahead. The spokes should not obstruct your view to the dash panel.
The Gemmer steering gear has about three turns lock to lock. A correctly adjusted Gemmer 2-tooth steering gear will have the tightest adjustment at center. “Center” is indicated when the steering wheel keyway is exactly on the top, or about 1 ½ turns from left or right lock.


You want to keep the wheel at the point of tightest adjustment. Changing the length of the drag link takes the wheel off center in relation to the steering gear. It should not be changed.
When you align the toe-in the steering wheel should first be placed in the center position. Then any adjustments to the tie rod should be made on both ends equally. Then when you drive down the road in the test drive, if the steering wheel is no longer centered you have to readjust the tie rod, not the drag link. This will ensure the tightest steering. Changing the length of the drag link is not a good idea.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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You want to keep the wheel at the point of tightest adjustment. Changing the length of the drag link takes the wheel off center in relation to the steering gear. It should not be changed.
When you align the toe-in the steering wheel should first be placed in the center position. Then any adjustments to the tie rod should be made on both ends equally. Then when you drive down the road in the test drive, if the steering wheel is no longer centered you have to readjust the tie rod, not the drag link. This will ensure the tightest steering. Changing the length of the drag link is not a good idea.
Am I missing something? How do you change the position of the steering wheel in relation to the wheels by adjusting the tie rod? The position of the left front wheel is still dictated by the solid drag link. The only way (that I see) to change it is with an adjustable drag link.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

adjust one end of the tie rod but not the other would do it, keep wheel centered then adjust either side till toe is correct and it goes straight.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:24 PM   #24
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adjust one end of the tie rod but not the other would do it, keep wheel centered then adjust either side till toe is correct and it goes straight.
Sorry, but the solid drag link would keep the relationship of the steering wheel and the left spindle the same no matter what you do to the tie rod. In what you suggest all you did was move the tie rod. The tie rod adjusts the relationship of one wheel to the other, not the relationship of the wheels to the steering wheel.

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 12-16-2016 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Sorry, but the solid drag link would keep the relationship of the steering wheel and the left spindle the same no matter what you do to the tie rod. In what you suggest all you did was move the tie rod. The tie rod adjusts the relationship of one wheel to the other, not the relationship of the wheels to the steering wheel.
Y-Block is correct, you will spend a lot of time moving the Tie Rod only to find you are back where you started, adjusting the Drag link there is a fine balance in getting the steering to hit the wheel stops equally and having the wheel straight, especially with a Double A with the 20 x 600 wheels and tires, I have a plan to draw a simple schematic to explain what moves when changes are made.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:26 PM   #26
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Seems to me the easy way to make one is buy a complete original tie rod with ends on it. Buy one die for one end. Cut the tie rod off on one end, thread it, install the end that was on it. Should I make some? I have many good used tie rods. If these would sell, I will make them. Your thoughts?

Steve @ Bert's
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I agree with Y-Blockhead and Brian T. The reason this adjustment is needed is that the steering arm on the left front wheel has been bent somewhat. That will also affect toe out on turns as well. There doesn't seem to be any way to measure this without a spec. measurement of "ball to backing plate" distance. If the drag link end is threaded on one end only, the adjustment would only be in increments of a single thread count (single revolution). An adjustment for sure, but often you'll be caught in the position of needing a 1/2 turn. Quite a number of other factors can also cause the offset in the sweet spot of the sector and worm. A truely adjustable drag link would be a good thing but having the ability know if the steering arm is spot on would also help avoid issues. Also, I believe that the steering arm had a design change ie. early and late - another issue if it was to correct a toe out on turns issue.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:32 AM   #28
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Originally Posted by SteveB31 View Post
Seems to me the easy way to make one is buy a complete original tie rod with ends on it. Buy one die for one end. Cut the tie rod off on one end, thread it, install the end that was on it. Should I make some? I have many good used tie rods. If these would sell, I will make them. Your thoughts?

Steve @ Bert's
Steve, that is exactly how I made mine. So simple. You should do a few and see how they sell. Just my thought.
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SteveB31 View Post
Seems to me the easy way to make one is buy a complete original tie rod with ends on it. Buy one die for one end. Cut the tie rod off on one end, thread it, install the end that was on it. Should I make some? I have many good used tie rods. If these would sell, I will make them. Your thoughts?

Steve @ Bert's
As for how they would sell, I made 2, 1 of which I installed when I fitted my reconditioned front end along with the short pitman arm, I had the second one for sale here and it was a little over a year before it sold.
I prefer the using a drag link with a adjuster sleeve over using tie rod ends as there can be a clearance problem with the axle, due to the clamp bolt.
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

And for those down under the NEW short Right Hand Drive pitman arm is now available from [email protected] , Plus its summertime so they are hot ,
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SteveB31 View Post
Seems to me the easy way to make one is buy a complete original tie rod with ends on it. Buy one die for one end. Cut the tie rod off on one end, thread it, install the end that was on it. Should I make some? I have many good used tie rods. If these would sell, I will make them. Your thoughts?

Steve @ Bert's
Hey Steve,
Yup, just take an original tie rod from the 'stuff' pile, clean it up ...inexpensive
Here's where the expense comes in (forgetting your time used to make). Went to a machine shop tool supplier and paid $35. for quality left hand threader. Finished product works very nicely !
You can even loan the LH tool to others to make their own. Cheap enough for one adjustable rod, but when will the LH tool ever be used again...ebay !
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by 100IH View Post
I agree with Y-Blockhead and Brian T. The reason this adjustment is needed is that the steering arm on the left front wheel has been bent somewhat. That will also affect toe out on turns as well. There doesn't seem to be any way to measure this without a spec. measurement of "ball to backing plate" distance. If the drag link end is threaded on one end only, the adjustment would only be in increments of a single thread count (single revolution). An adjustment for sure, but often you'll be caught in the position of needing a 1/2 turn. Quite a number of other factors can also cause the offset in the sweet spot of the sector and worm. A truely adjustable drag link would be a good thing but having the ability know if the steering arm is spot on would also help avoid issues. Also, I believe that the steering arm had a design change ie. early and late - another issue if it was to correct a toe out on turns issue.
100IH, This brings up some good points, I have often wondered how many steering arms are checked in a jig to see if they are bent, or conform to the updated arms as per the Service bulletins,before being re-balled.
The left steering arm I removed from my truck was bent a little over 1 inch from the back plate causing toe-in wear on the right front tire, the right side was about 1/4 inch, I suspect someone maybe using it the same way.
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Old 12-17-2016, 06:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I used a tie rod that got bent in the middle. Cut it too length and reused the reversed thread side and used a regular die on the other. Cheap to do and was able to repurpose an otherwise bad part.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:41 PM   #34
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Aren't tie rods hollow? Shouldn't the drag link be solid?
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:15 PM   #35
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Sorry, but the solid drag link would keep the relationship of the steering wheel and the left spindle the same no matter what you do to the tie rod. In what you suggest all you did was move the tie rod. The tie rod adjusts the relationship of one wheel to the other, not the relationship of the wheels to the steering wheel.
doh... as soon as i read that then remembered how the model A is setup i knew i goofed...modern cars with rack and pinion you can adjust away to center the wheel...

oh well brainfart it was...
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:46 PM   #36
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doh... as soon as i read that then remembered how the model A is setup i knew i goofed...modern cars with rack and pinion you can adjust away to center the wheel...

oh well brainfart it was...

Me too. I was thinking of the more modern setup instead of the Model A.
I'm now lost in the woods that I slinked back into.....
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:25 AM   #37
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

As far as knowing if the steering arm is bent, I think the best thing one can do is to try to have the ball to backing plate space, left and right equal. I tried 3 and got the best match, the others were all over the map. At that point, you are ready to find whether or not you need to buy or build a drag link.
Cooter, excellent point. I haven't cut either apart but I think that the tie rod is hollow with plugged ends to hold up under the clamping force at the socket ends. Those of you who have first hand knowledge, please chime in. This would be a safety issue. Let us resolve it here now for everyone's benefit.

Last edited by 100IH; 12-20-2016 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:47 AM   #38
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

My original tie rods are plugged hollow rods, and my drag links are solid.
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I started this thread a long time ago. If I was going to make 2 more adjustable drag links, what is the drag link diameter and thread size? I would be using one of the tie rod ends on the drag link- with the normal hand thread to make it easier to find a die for the cut off part of the drag link. It might be easier to just buy one or two.

Vic
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:50 PM   #40
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I started this thread a long time ago. If I was going to make 2 more adjustable drag links, what is the drag link diameter and thread size? I would be using one of the tie rod ends on the drag link- with the normal hand thread to make it easier to find a die for the cut off part of the drag link. It might be easier to just buy one or two.

Vic
Vic,
The 2 adjustable drag link diameters I have are, 9/16x18tpi and 5/8x18tpi, you will need a drag link of 11/16 diameter (if there is one ) to use a tie rod end, you will need a left and right to be able to adjust full lock and align the steering wheel, if you go with the drag links use the 5/8 diameter, you will only need the 1 pair of dyes.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:26 AM   #41
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

I pm'd machine girl about her cnc machined set-up but have not heard anything guess she is not doing them now.
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

This thread describes 2 designs for an adjustable drag link
(a) 18" tie rod stock (solid 11/16") with 2 tie rod ends
(b) Original drag link cut in half with 5/8" threaded adjusting sleeve in the middle.

With design (a) the springs on both ends are inboard of the balls. When the drag link is pushed forward by the pitman arm, the pressure between the balls is spring against spring. When the drag link is pulled back, the pressure is solid end cup against solid end cup. Design (b) maintains Fords original where there is aways one spring inboard and one spring outboard no matter if the drag link is pushed forward or pulled back by the pitman arm.

With a spare drag link or a couple of tie rod ends, the time and cost for making either is about the same and pretty small.

Any thoughts on (a) vs. (b) ?
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:09 PM   #43
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

If you have the two tooth steering box this will move the sector off center while driving straight ahead. You will now have play in the steering wheel.
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:55 PM   #44
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[QUOTE=daren007;1540366]If you have the two tooth steering box this will move the sector off center while driving straight ahead. You will now have play in the steering

Actually, an adjustable drag link is used to remove the play. Assuming the box is set up and adjusted correctly (no slop/no bind at dead center), a slight difference in the radius of a shortened pitman may result in the wheels not pointing straight ahead when the sector is centered on the worm. Adjusting the length of the drag link (it doesn't take much) will get the wheels lined up with the box and give you equal steering wheel left/right turns stop to stop.
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:29 PM   #45
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I stand corrected.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:43 AM   #46
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Is this adjustable drag link still available? My email is [email protected]
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:49 AM   #47
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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When I was young I decided to try and cut some left hand threads. After about a day and half I finally figured it out. I was so frustrated I was even working between the wall and lathe and my grandfather would walk by and start laughing. I know, its actually easy once you figure it out. But, until then,,,,,,

I had kind of a similar experience learning to weld. I don't need no stinking helmet !
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:21 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by machine girl View Post
Attachment 221698 all new cnc machined $140.00 + shipping. inc guts.

Attachment 221699
Is this still available?
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:11 PM   #49
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Machine Girl has not advertised in ~7 years. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135427
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:38 PM   #50
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Somewhere it was posted that the tie rod ends version can interfere with the steering arms, etc. Cutting and threading with rt. and left hand dies a used drag link and adding the center clamp may be better. The shortened pitman arm will not allow the steering gear and steering wheel to be at the center point for removing freeplay with wheels straight ahead as posted by others.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:49 PM   #51
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

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Machine Girl has not advertised in ~7 years. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135427
His wares are listed on eBay under the name "dav4564d". However, he doesn't have anything listed presently. As noted above he hasn't been on this site for a while, due being kicked off for who knows what reason.

I have one of his adjustable drag links, just waiting to install it when I get a round tuit.
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:14 AM   #52
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

OK, since I couldn't find an adjustable drag link to buy I measured my drag link at .629". So I ordered a 5/8"-18 left hand die nut (already had a right hand die). and a 5/8" adjusting sleeve. Was thinking about cutting out 1" or 1 1/2" and threading both ends. Anyone done this? Is this about right?
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:38 AM   #53
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OK, since I couldn't find an adjustable drag link to buy I measured my drag link at .629". So I ordered a 5/8"-18 left hand die nut (already had a right hand die). and a 5/8" adjusting sleeve. Was thinking about cutting out 1" or 1 1/2" and threading both ends. Anyone done this? Is this about right?
That is exactly what did a number of years ago. I seem to recall I removed 2" out of the middle but I'm not sure. Use the length of the sleeve as a guide for the length of the rod and how much thread. With the steering box set up correctly, the drag length adjustment needed should be very small and I wanted to leave as much of the rod as possible.

Sleeve is a MOOG #ES2032S
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File Type: jpg 20210105_080815.jpg (55.1 KB, 72 views)

Last edited by dmaxweb; 01-05-2021 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:45 AM   #54
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:57 AM   #55
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Default Re: Adjustable Drag Link

Here's one I machined for a 49 F8 truck left & right threads all done on my
WWII South Bend lathe ..
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:28 AM   #56
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Thanks guys!
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Old 01-05-2021, 12:35 PM   #57
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OK, since I couldn't find an adjustable drag link to buy I measured my drag link at .629". So I ordered a 5/8"-18 left hand die nut (already had a right hand die). and a 5/8" adjusting sleeve. Was thinking about cutting out 1" or 1 1/2" and threading both ends. Anyone done this? Is this about right?
Have done the one using a Moog adjustable sleeve using the dies as posted on an old extra drag link. Cut enough threads but don't cut out too much of the drag to get the most support from the sleeve. Then fine tune trim the removed drag section as needed.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:49 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by machine girl View Post
Attachment 221698 all new cnc machined $140.00 + shipping. inc guts.

Attachment 221699

I bought one off Machine Girl a few years ago when I was unable to get full lock on both sides after fitting a shortened pitman arm. It worked a treat and was an excellent product.
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