Fire damage to my Model A

[eagle]

I have a Leatherback Sedan and it has a vinyl/canvas roof material. It has been totally water proof. Sunday night my garage caught on fire, I got the A out without any visible damage. Monday morning I brought it into town and gave it a good wash job at the carwash and the water runs right through the top. The first thing I noticed is the fabric "wetted" like it didn't do before. Then I noticed the water was coming right on through and water was dripping and streaming down through the headliner. The paint has some blotching, the chrome is somewhat "blackened" and pitted, and the nickel is chalky and has a corrosion on it. Other than that, everything seems fine. The insurance adjuster is coming tomorrow, is there any way to repair the top, chrome, nickel, and paint or does it need to be replaced? I have been just sick about it but at least its not a pile of twisted, blackened metal scrap. If I'd have been 5 minutes later thats exactly what it would have been. Any tips or things to look for would be greatly appreciated.

[sturgis 39]

I would wait until the insurance adjuster sees the car. I have had claims with Haggerty and they fixed everything and helped find original parts. They were great to work with and there was no deductible.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Smoke can do a lot of damage to metal plating. It sounds like you'll have to get a new top, paint job, and all the bright work replated.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Wow, sorry to hear about your garage.

I have dealt with collector car insurance claims in my line of work and the two things now is what does it take to return the car back to a condition 30 seconds prior to the fire. For the interim, you need to hold tight and let the adjuster make his notes and document what he sees first before you do anything. Then you can look at what he is proposing and see if it aligns with your mindset. If not, you can start to negociate. If you two initially settle on a price and later find there is supplemental damage, it is much more difficult then. Depending on the limits of your policy, it may be beneficial to find a shop up your way that is very familiar with your Model A bodystyle that can correctly repair the damage.

[asapguy]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a 62 Corvett several yrs ago that rolled into a cherry tree after the e-brake released when not set properly. I had JC Taylor Ins. & they had an ins. adj. out in two days & wrote me a check. He had forgot to list the grill so I called & JC Taylor. They sent another check for a new grill.

I juist finished installing a new top on my early 29 60B leatherback. This is not an easy top to do. Make sure you get someone who is familier with this type top. Good luck & I hope everything turns out OK.

[eagle]

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I have JC Taylor ins. They have been very helpful so far, the adjuster comes out monday. I have no idea where to get the top done. I live in central Minnesota, anyone have an idea? I suppose Minneapolis may have someone who can do it, thats about 3 hours away. I did notice some surface rust under the fenders that had been clean before the fire. Its amazing how the smoke corrodes the metal so soon, I washed it with soap as soon as possible too.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by eagle

I have JC Taylor ins. They have been very helpful so far, the adjuster comes out monday. I have no idea where to get the top done. I live in central Minnesota, anyone have an idea? I suppose Minneapolis may have someone who can do it, thats about 3 hours away. I did notice some surface rust under the fenders that had been clean before the fire. Its amazing how the smoke corrodes the metal so soon, I washed it with soap as soon as possible too.

My initial thoughts would be to contact Elizabeth at Classtique and see of she would be interested in undertaking this however she is going to be limited if there is any type of structural damage under the damaged fabric.

[eagle]

Funny thing is, the fabric looks great! Shows no damage at all, but it sure does leak.

[Earle]

Eagle, so sorry to hear about the fire and damage to your car.

Can you share with us how the fire started? Maybe we can learn something about dangers that may exist in our own garages that need to be corrected.

[lajones]

Pay close attention to any smoke smell in the car. A friend's cabinet shop caught fire and he had to throw out all of his lumber because of the smell of smoke. Just because it did not burn doesn't mean there is no damage. You may have to replace the interior to rid the car of any smell.

[alanwoodieman]

there are several ways to get the smoke smell out of fabric-used car clean up shops have a de-ionizer that works great and you can use plain amonia and place car in a warm inviroment--I know the last works because of smoke smell in my 40 Tudor due to an electrical overheat caused by a cigarette lighter. sorry to hear of your loss but at least a piece of history is going to again be saved from a trip to china to be turned into another useless piece of crxp.

[eagle]

I had a solar panel on the roof feeding a charge controller that charged some deep cycle batteries. The charge controller started the fire and then it burned into the wall behind the controller. The plywood sheeting on the inside of the walls is not a good idea, a shop should always be lined with steel. Anyway, once the fire was into the wall it burned up into the electrical panel and then we had an electrical fire. It ended up burning the corner of the building out from the inside, then got up into the attic and burned off some rafters. I got it out with a couple fire extinguishers and a garden hose before the fire dept got here. I would of never even tried to put it out myself but it just so happens that the same corner is where I stored a good sized fire extinguisher. Just as I found the fire, it was a flame area about 5 foot wide and from floor to ceiling, the fire extinguisher that was in the corner exploded and by itself knocked down the fire to less than half. When I saw that I ran to the house and grabbed more extinguishers and the rest is history. A fireman, my uncle, and I tore the inside walls and the outside sheet steel off and were able to get it out. WHAT A MESS! I have spent every day, all day, except thurs & fri cleaning. Washing everything salvageable with laundry soap solution and throwing away a HUGE pile of stuff. Its all I can do to go out and get at it every day, very depressing. I am a packrat and so my shop was FULL! 26x30 lined with lots of shelving, all full. I had a model A engine sitting on an engine stand that is all rebuilt, although no oil pan, manifolds, etc on it yet, do you think the smoke would do it any harm? Within hours of the fire anything steel or aluminum was already corroding, I have been washing everything but it doesn't completely stop the corrosion/rust. We'll see what the adjuster says today, when I filed the claim last monday the insurance told me not to touch anything until the adjuster arrived but there was no way I was going to let everything just deteriorate for a week! We'll see how it goes.

[eagle]

I got the first estimate done the other day. The body shop says all the paint has to be stripped off and new base/clear paint. The roof and headliner need to be replaced, and all the chrome/nickel replated. I have a question for you here... would the best result be to replate everything with nickel or buy new? It is all original now, is there an advantage in having an original radiator shell replated or would a good quality repro be as good? I definitely want the door handles replated because I've used repro door handles and the quality is not so great. The estimate is $14800, I couldn't believe it.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by eagle

I got the first estimate done the other day. The body shop says all the paint has to be stripped off and new base/clear paint. The roof and headliner need to be replaced, and all the chrome/nickel replated. I have a question for you here... would the best result be to replate everything with nickel or buy new? It is all original now, is there an advantage in having an original radiator shell replated or would a good quality repro be as good? I definitely want the door handles replated because I've used repro door handles and the quality is not so great. The estimate is $14800, I couldn't believe it.

Coming from a purist (me), I would use the original parts if at all possible if there is no warpage due to the heat.

Looks like you will have to re-restore your car.

It is a tough decission during this time of the year.

Pluck

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by eagle

I got the first estimate done the other day. The body shop says all the paint has to be stripped off and new base/clear paint. The roof and headliner need to be replaced, and all the chrome/nickel replated. I have a question for you here... would the best result be to replate everything with nickel or buy new? It is all original now, is there an advantage in having an original radiator shell replated or would a good quality repro be as good? I definitely want the door handles replated because I've used repro door handles and the quality is not so great. The estimate is $14800, I couldn't believe it.

......AND, that is only an estimate! What happens when they get in there and find hidden damage? I have said this over and over that it is not very hard to "under-insure" your collector car.

Personally, I would NOT use base coat clear coat ...but that is me. Next, the vehicle evidently had original parts that were nickle plated. I'm guessing you will rue the day you go with inferior reproduction parts.

[700rpm]

The reproduction radiator shells, in particular, are not right. Dash panels and dash light too. At least stay with those. OR sell me your originals.

[400A-64]

Garage fires happen when you least expect it! In 1965 I was restoring a '50 Ford. I had the body out side and all of the trim and Eng/tran,seats dash etc inside. Our NEW car of 1 week was inside. Our washer & dryer was also located in the garage.The washer & dryer were still under new appliance warranty.After the last dryer load of the day, the dryer shut off mechanically but not electricly. NO BREAKERS TRIPPED and the resulting fire destroyed ALL THAT WE OWNED.( I towed the '50 Ford body to the dump)
Bruce Davis [email protected]

[roccaas]

Don't fire experts caution against reusing parts that have been burned, even if "repairable"?

[Elcastor]

It sounds like the heat was not that high (His top did not catch on fire) so the metal parts should be just fine! I say use the original, not reproduction!

[eagle]

The metal parts were NOT hot enough to buckle or distort at all. It was an electrical fire and so pretty much all of the damage is from the corrosive effects of the smoke and fire extinguisher dust. From 75 feet away you would not ever guess it had ever been in a fire. If this ever happens to anyone else, I learned something from a fire restoration company. Wash everything ASAP, which I did, and then spray everything down with a light oil, which I did not. The oil will stop the corrosive elements in the pores of the metal/paint/cloth. They use a light oil on everything metal or painted and then wash it off. I washed the A off with good soap and water and cleaned all of the chrome/nickel with chrome cleaner spray. It did not stop it...3 days later I looked it over again and couldn't believe it. I think I'm going to have the original metal re-plated. The repro parts I have used in the past on my T were fine... but not even close to the original. The only parts I was considering using repro was bumpers, lights, and radiator housing but I'm going to replate them now after what I'm hearing from you here. Is nickel OK for bumpers? Is it as durable as chrome? I had my insurance value at $12k so I imagine this is going to cost me about $3k. I don't have the money but I'm not going to cut corners. I have worked and saved for a long time to buy my A and I don't want to look at it every day and think "I should've...". I have JC Taylor ins and so far they have been great... I'll see what they do now. It makes me sick to think that my original car will now be a "mostly restored" car but it can't be helped.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by eagle

I have JC Taylor ins. They have been very helpful so far, the adjuster comes out monday. I have no idea where to get the top done. I live in central Minnesota, anyone have an idea? I suppose Minneapolis may have someone who can do it, thats about 3 hours away. I did notice some surface rust under the fenders that had been clean before the fire. Its amazing how the smoke corrodes the metal so soon, I washed it with soap as soon as possible too.

That's weird that you had to have an adjuster come out. I have JC Taylor and no one ever came out when I had my "accident". I was backing the A out of the barn and caught the drivers side front fender and tore it up. I just had to go get the estimate and fax it in, and boom, check was there to get it fixed. Then I just had to send pictures to them to show it was fixed to get my coverage dollars back up to what it was prior.

Neal

[Tom Wesenberg]

Your bumpers should be CHROME, but the rest of the bright work should be nickel. For sure you want to replate your original parts. I've seen different quality radiator shells, and the one I bought about 20 years ago is one of the better ones and it's nickel, but it still doesn't compare to an original. The same goes for lights. Original renickeled headlamps are much nicer looking than the repro's.

[eagle]

Thanks for all the advice.

[Keith True]

What has the insurance company said they are going to pay you? With the damage at $14,800,and the insured value at $12,000,in their eyes that is a total.They pay you the agreed amount and they own the car.With antique cars it is a little different on the buy-back chance you are offered with a modern car.With antiques they stand a very good chance of recovering most,if not all of their money on something like that.You get to bid just like anybody else.I bid on a roadster that was drowned in the mothers day floods we had in the northeast about 6 years ago.I think the owner was insured for around $10,000,he felt he could buy it back for about half and redo it over himself.I bid around $10,500 and was beat,and by a street rod shop at that.Have they actually told you they would pay you the limit and let you keep the car?I for one,would be VERY happy for you,and I would be buying a bunch of lottery tickets.I did see it happen with a friends 57 T-bird,the damage was within a couple of thousand of a total.After the shop got into it they discovered damage to the cowl that took it over the limit.I know the shop,I feel they discovered the damage early on but waited until they had enough into it so that it would not have been feasible for them to pay off the shop and take it.

[Tinbasher]

Keep to the original parts. Remember aftermarket stands for "All Most fits"

If the insurance wants to Write-off the vehicle. See if you can keep the car and get a cash settlement. The Damaged car should be worth 20 - 30% of value.

Take your time and you'll come out ahead.

J.Poole The Old Tinbasher

[eagle]

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Yeah.... I guess I didn't think it through. The garage insurance company is giving me big troubles, they won't pay out decently. The electrician's quote was $1600 and the insurance is willing to pay out $200. Who ever heard of an electrician coming out and completely rewiring a garage for $200?!! I thought the $1600 figure was cheap. Its Progressive. My advice would be STAY AWAY FROM THEM! I saved $300 a year by switching to them, in the end its going to cost me thousands. Hopefully I come out a little better on the A. I forgot about the "total" deal, I see another headache coming.

[1931 flamingo]

There are private insurance appraisers that could probably jack that estimate up 3 x's AND fight with the ins co for you and get it Sometimes you get what you pay for and ain't advertising wonderful. Can't stand the progressive ad girl. JMO
Paul in CT

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

There are private insurance appraisers that could probably jack that estimate up 3 x's AND fight with the ins co for you and get it Sometimes you get what you pay for and ain't advertising wonderful. Can't stand the progressive ad girl. JMO
Paul in CT

Ditto, and I dropped Progerssive 10 years ago.

[Ed in Maine]

Sorry to hear about your fire damage. After all your work, the cars become part of you. I use the breakers in my garage to kill the power to the building when I leave it. When I return, I flip the breakers on and the lights and my classical music come on and I am ready to pickup where I left off. Good luck with your repairs. Ed