Why coolant is good

[mike657894]

the super cooled water trick is a time window thing(the kid was doing it). 2.5 hours in the freezer but 3 hours and its a block.

[3.6rs]

Good or not good, that's the question.
I don't know what was in the system as coolant (it was good for -20°C), but this is how my water pump looked like.

[tbirdtbird]

Antifreeze ("coolant") offers both
1. freeze protection
2. corrosion protection

these are two separate functions, and are not related.
You may have been good to -20°C, but the corrosion protection had been used up.

The glycols in antifreeze are very stable and do not oxidize with time, but the corrosion inhibitors do oxidize (get used up) and lose their effectiveness.

Measure the pH of your antifreeze. New in the jug it will be 8, which is slightly alkaline, which is your protection. You can prove this to yourself by measuring it. Once in the car and used, if 7 or below, the corrosion inhibitors are gone and you WILL get corrosion. If this is the case, change out the AF or even more simply, add a small can of Prestone corrosion inhibitor which can be bought separately at NAPA, etc.

This information came from the Prestone rep many many years ago when I taught mechanics at a voc-tech school

I check the pH of all my cars once a year

[ursus]

QUOTE:
Antifreeze ("coolant") offers both
1. freeze protection
2. corrosion protection

It also raises the boiling point of the mixture and could as well be termed "antiboil".

[robgross1930]

There's no glycol-based antifreeze, or any liquid cooling agent for that matter, that can dissipate or transfer heat as well as plain old water. Adding soluble oil will take care of rust and corrosion. For freeze protection, you know what to do.

[daveymc29]

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How much soluble oils is used in the Model A system? Tap water or distilled with the soluble oil?
Thanks,
Dave, in Sunny California where it never freezes. (Inside my attached Garage)

[updraught]

We've got two companies here that make an inhibitor for older cars, this is one:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...id_products=92
It says it can also be added to coolant.

[robgross1930]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

How much soluble oils is used in the Model A system? Tap water or distilled with the soluble oil?
Thanks,
Dave, in Sunny California where it never freezes. (Inside my attached Garage)

Texaco Soluble D is a good one to use and it is mixed 40 to 1 for use in automotive cooling. Distilled water is a good choice. Tap water will work too but much of your ground water is not only saturated with calcium
carbonate, but silica too. Any water you put in your radiator
will quickly become saturated with whatever metals are present in
your engine, i.e., iron, copper, aluminum, etc. Once the minute amount
needed for this is dissolved, no more will dissolve until more water
is added. In the meantime if you are losing any water vapor,
whatever solids in the original water will be deposited somewhere in
your cooling system. This leads to scale. So the lower solids
content the water in your add, the better, like distilled for example. Then again some people claim they drive their A's nearly forever and rarely lose a drop of water, so tap water would be ok for them it seems.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by robgross1930

There's no glycol-based antifreeze, or any liquid cooling agent for that matter, that can dissipate or transfer heat as well as plain old water. Adding soluble oil will take care of rust and corrosion. For freeze protection, you know what to do.

But, what is the percent difference in cooling ability?

When a Model A overheats, it's almost always due to the radiator being plugged with rust and chemicals from the water, or due to wrong engine timing.

[updraught]

One point of view.


"There is little doubt that engines cooled by glycol run hotter than those using just water do. This sounds strange, but is due to certain basic physical characteristics of water when compared to glycol, the main ones being specific heat capacity (amount of heat the liquid will absorb), thermal conductivity (the ability of the liquid to distribute heat throughout itself) and heat transfer or thermal convection coefficient (the ability of heat to transfer from the hot engine to the coolant). It has been reported by some vintage car drivers that the differences between glycol and water in terms of cooling can be as much as 16°C (30°F.)
If you study the wording on a pack of ethylene glycol mixture it will state the appropriate boiling rates at certain temperatures. For example a 50/50 mixture boils at 129°C (265°F). Assuming you are using a 15lb pressure cap and has a thermostat to control temperatures. Plain water on the other hand with a 15lb pressure cap boils at 121°C (250°F).
Not many veteran and vintage cars have pressurised systems nor do they possess thermostats to regulate temperatures. This being the case, without a pressurised cap water boils at 100°C (212°F) whilst a 50/50 ethylene glycol mixture boils at (106°C) (223°F)."
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pd...0BE%20COOL.pdf

[robgross1930]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

But, what is the percent difference in cooling ability?

When a Model A overheats, it's almost always due to the radiator being plugged with rust and chemicals from the water, or due to wrong engine timing.

Pure water has the highest possible heat capacity. The heat capacity of ethylene glycol is about 65% of water at the temps seen in the system. That means that to cool the engine by one degree one would need about 50% more of it than straight water. So even though one could use pure antifreeze as a coolant, one would need a bigger radiator and a more robust cooling system compared to one that used straight water.

[tbirdtbird]

" So even though one could use pure antifreeze as a coolant, one would need a bigger radiator and a more robust cooling system compared to one that used straight water."

hard to know where any of this is really going. A lot here unrelated to seaslugs post #1. I am all but certain no one has suggested using 100% glycol.

There is no location info given here so perhaps robgross is from europe where they may do things differently; but the customary mix here in the USA is 50-50, and that is not likely to change soon with much of the country going below freezing in the winter. It is common knowledge that 100% water has more cooling capacity than 50-50 but many people do not have that choice. Tom W has summed it all up nicely in #29

the thread is becoming very irrelevant and drifting far afield

[updraught]

Coolant in modern cars (with aluminium radiators, long life coolant, pressure caps, plastic tanks and electric fans) is standard wherever you are. Hot or cold.

However, this being an old ford forum, things are a bit different.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

"
I am all but certain no one has suggested using 100% glycol.

According to this chart it doesn't appear it would be a good idea to go above ~70%. Notice this is at Sea level so not a pressurize system.
I run 33% (lower end of recommended concentration), 1 gallon Peak Green (for cars before 1989) to 2 gallons distilled water. Good for 0°F, doesn't freeze too often in SoCal tho...

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

The thread is becoming very irrelevant and drifting far afield

Boy has it!!

[robgross1930]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

" So even though one could use pure antifreeze as a coolant, one would need a bigger radiator and a more robust cooling system compared to one that used straight water."

hard to know where any of this is really going. A lot here unrelated to seaslugs post #1. I am all but certain no one has suggested using 100% glycol.

There is no location info given here so perhaps robgross is from europe where they may do things differently; but the customary mix here in the USA is 50-50, and that is not likely to change soon with much of the country going below freezing in the winter. It is common knowledge that 100% water has more cooling capacity than 50-50 but many people do not have that choice. Tom W has summed it all up nicely in #29

the thread is becoming very irrelevant and drifting far afield

I beg to differ. Sea Slugs said, " .... there is no reason to use water in a model A." My contention is there is plenty of reason to use straight water in a Model A (with soluble oil added of course) and I was answering a question asked by daveymc29 as freezing is not an issue in his location and then answered a question asked by Tom W. My comment concerning the use of 100% pure antifreeze was merely part of my explanation.

[Kurt in NJ]

Here is the inside of a flathead block that always had antifreeze in it

[Kurt in NJ]

Water, you can see the pitting around the opening, and on the outside of the cylinder

the difference in cooling ability between water and AF is not a factor in my car, I need a thermostat to keep the engine warm enough to be efficient