60 hp AV8 performance ?

[aonemarine]

Putting one together now and hope to be up and running before the end of the year.
Edelbrock heads and intake, twin 81's, mild cam backed up with a t-5 and 3.78 gears.
Im expecting it to run like a chevrolet chevette....I'd be fine with that.

[Bulligen]

I have a 28 Phaeton that was modified in 1948 with a 60 hp, 40 trans, quarter elliptical springs at rear with a 40 rear end. Dropped front axle with 40 brakes all around. 40 box with cross steering, and of course 3 on the tree. I just started driving it after freshening everything up. It is real fun to drive, sounds good and has all the power I need for a touring car.

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Bulligen

I have a 28 Phaeton that was modified in 1948 with a 60 hp, 40 trans, quarter elliptical springs at rear with a 40 rear end. Dropped front axle with 40 brakes all around. 40 box with cross steering, and of course 3 on the tree. I just started driving it after freshening everything up. It is real fun to drive, sounds good and has all the power I need for a touring car.

Is the 60 stock or modified? If modified whats it got going on?

We are talking the 37-40 136cid 60 correct?

[Bulligen]

It is rebuilt as stock, all is new. It is the cast iron sided block. Send me your email and I will send you a photo or two. Rog

[Bruce Lancaster]

If it's together and working, and is built the usual A V8 way with a V8 trans bolted to A torque tube...buy it and enjoy. My thought is that it will have pitiful low end power but will have drivability at higher speeds than a stock A.
The reason I ask about build style is that if done the "standard' way, swapping in a 239 later will be easy.
On the torque issue...Rod&Custom road tested a restored '32 B against a restored '32 V8, on the road and at the strip. Article has been discussed and probably posted here. The 221 V8 was generally faster, of course, but the B was indeed stronger at low end, and at the strip it was first for a little bit off the line and at each gear change surged ahead a bit, with the V8 pulling ahead on top end power in each gear and of course winning the race.
Ford posted minimum acceptable performance standards for acceleration, top speed, and mileage in the late 1930's Service Bulletins...I've posted on these several times. All performance figures for the 60 are pretty dismal. It belonged in a MUCH smaller car.

[aonemarine]

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Bulligen, pm with e mail sent.

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

If it's together and working, and is built the usual A V8 way with a V8 trans bolted to A torque tube...buy it and enjoy. My thought is that it will have pitiful low end power but will have drivability at higher speeds than a stock A.
The reason I ask about build style is that if done the "standard' way, swapping in a 239 later will be easy.
On the torque issue...Rod&Custom road tested a restored '32 B against a restored '32 V8, on the road and at the strip. Article has been discussed and probably posted here. The 221 V8 was generally faster, of course, but the B was indeed stronger at low end, and at the strip it was first for a little bit off the line and at each gear change surged ahead a bit, with the V8 pulling ahead on top end power in each gear and of course winning the race.
Ford posted minimum acceptable performance standards for acceleration, top speed, and mileage in the late 1930's Service Bulletins...I've posted on these several times. All performance figures for the 60 are pretty dismal. It belonged in a MUCH smaller car.

Im uncertain if the op is referring to the 21 stud 60 hp, or the 17 stud v8-60.

[Bruce Lancaster]

There is no 221 V8 60...
Any of the 221's has a great deal more torque than the 60. If you look at factory dyno curves, the 60 HP curve is still going upward at the point they cut off the chart, so presumably its actual power got at least a bit above 60, but it is still low...and that top end has little use in normal driving anyway. Its torque is low, and you just can't overlook the small displacement in fairly large cars. An early MG sounds like a perfect home.

[rotorwrench]

Those first 21 studs were 65 HP. With a better carb & a few other improvements, it didn't take long to get to 85 HP.

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

There is no 221 V8 60...
Any of the 221's has a great deal more torque than the 60. If you look at factory dyno curves, the 60 HP curve is still going upward at the point they cut off the chart, so presumably its actual power got at least a bit above 60, but it is still low...and that top end has little use in normal driving anyway. Its torque is low, and you just can't overlook the small displacement in fairly large cars. An early MG sounds like a perfect home.

Many many times i have seen people referr to the 21 stud as a 60 and have even gone to look at a v8-60 to find its a 21 stud. And in this posting there is a comment about the 60 being heavy? And you comment on the 32 ford shoot out v8 vs 4 banger drag race gets my head (and certainly others) spinning. Just looking for clarity.
The v8-60 is a pretty unique little engine and was produced in many varients as it passed the simca years and even went to a hemi head version that went into dodge vehicles in the early 50s. I would love to know what is interchangeable, but likely to never run across the hemi version in my lifetime.
And since ive jacked the thread this much already, just two days ago i was told the lincon v12 pistons fit the v8-60?? V8-60 is 2.6" bore, the v12 is 2.8"?? But there was different displacements of the v12 so maybe??
Hopefully you understand why im getting so confused, or maybe i just need a reboot with a rubber mallet to the head..

[Bruce Lancaster]

Yeah, "heavy" caught my eye. When I was about 16, a friend and I helped a man install a 60 into a Henry J...with no hoist of any sort. We just picked it up and stuffed it in there... at least the fenders were off so we only had to lift a couple of feet. We were scrawny teenagers, too!
The road and drag test was with two cars from the Harrah collection...it has been discussed on here. The banger was significantly slower than the 8 in everything, but repeatedly demonstrated its low end torque by briefly out accelerating the 8 at the low end of each gear. The magazine is worth hunting down! The tests were not all out, of course. A journalist who broke one of Harrah's toys would certainly have regretted it!

Drag test is discussed here: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...test&showall=1

That is a classic magazine to own!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Also, there were two bores in the history of the V12...don't have numbers handy

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Also, there were two bores in the history of the V12...don't have numbers handy

I think there is more than two, but difficult to find specs on the net. Even then who knows if its correct..
Thanks for linking the drag race, its a great read.

I carried out a v8-60 from the swap meet this weekend, boy did i get some funny looks lol

[Ford Freak]

aonemarine - You have not hijacked the thread , I'm just kickin back learning all I can here !
Guys - here is a link to the craigslist ad : https://syracuse.craigslist.org/cto/6093848995.html

[aonemarine]

Originally Posted by Ford Freak

aonemarine - You have not hijacked the thread , I'm just kickin back learning all I can here !
Guys - here is a link to the craigslist ad : https://syracuse.craigslist.org/cto/6093848995.html

The only negative thing I can say is.....Im not liking the blue color
Have you taken it out for a test drive yet??

Im new to the v8-60 world and still learning about them. So far I have found that they are expensive to rebuild, parts can be scarce, and the water pump design sucks. Alot of people put them down as low torque motors best left for light vehicles, and I can understand that but an A is a pretty light vehicle so I expect it to be fine. Pressure fed oiling, synchronized transmission...Well thats music to my ears. Now don't get me wrong, my a is fun to drive but I would love to have a synchronized trans behind it and that could sway my judgement some, but its hard to get past the cool factor of the under dog 60.
Hopefully I will finish up mine this year so i can give better first hand insight. Right now all I can do is speculate. There are a few who actually have the 60 in an A, and are quite happy with it. I hope to be one of them.

[aonemarine]

Ohh Just listen....and Scott says he isnt getting the rpms he should right now so there is room for improvement...https://youtu.be/J8Yqb3WVReU

[Ford Freak]

No , I haven't driven it . I just happened upon the ad , and I was just curious about the V860's performance in a Model A . Not buying anything - I can't buy anything right now , as I am out of garage space . Many guys on here are in the same boat !
I was just curious about the V860 , as I know little about them .
I do know more now , thanks to the responses on this thread . Thanks guys !

[midgetracer]

I have a V8 60 in a Brookville 29roadster. Fenderless and put in a quick change rear from Derek in NZ. It has two 81s on an Edelbrock manifold, Lakes headers and Offy heads. It is a blast to drive, but it is far from a high power car. It bogs down on hills and my full fendered pickup with a stock B engine will run the wheels off the roadster in a race. I agree with the people who say it is the look that is the attraction on the V8 60.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Imagine if Ford had stuffed a 60 into a Model Y in 1935...Muscle Car!

Not so much in a Ford. The following numbers are from specifications in the Ford Performance Services bulletins. They were a form of testing for dealers...cars that could not produce acceleration, top speed, or economy at least as good as the minimum specs needed repair. These acceleration numbers are from 7 MPH in high gear only, an extra burden on the 60.

60, 4.44, '37-40 7--25MPH 9.5 seconds, 10-60 31 seconds, top speed 76

85 3.78, '37-40 7-25 7.5 10-60 23, top 85

95 Merc , 39-40, 3.54 7-25 7.6, 10-60 23, 88mph

Hottest 10-60 was 17.5 for a `1934!

Remember, Ford intended these numbers as the WORST acceptable performance. I think they were meant to allow dealers to classify customer performance complaints as either valid or a driver problem. If you said your car was a slug, they took it out on the road and ran the hell out of it for definitive numbers!

Of course, the test just screams for someone to throw a Merc engine and 4.44's into a '32-34...I wonder if anyone ever thought to try that??

[1930 turbo]

We had a V8-60 in my sons 28 highboy roadster,and it did not like to go up hills. Changed to Lincoln rearend with 4.44 to1 gears and that helped some. Put on a turbocharger off a 2.2 Dodge and hills were not a problem. 1930 turbo