The Ford Barn

thom · 09-23-2019, 11:29 AM

The seller, who is a lifelong, trusted friend, of the '28 Sport Coupe we're buying in a couple of days, assures me that the car has never overheated in the 2+ years that he has owned and driven it. However, a previous owner has installed a horrible looking, gallon jug on the driver's side firewall, above the steering column for an overflow. There is a 3/8 hose from the lower end of the stock overflow tube to the jug and a 5/8 or 3/4 heater hose from the jug toward the ground for a drain. The car has a quail thermometer cap on it. An overflow tank mounted there would not work with a non-pressurized system, would it? That mess on the firewall will disappear on the way home at the first public trash dumpster I see! See the pic below.
Another thing that concerns me a little is there is a grease fitting instead of a filler plug in the top of the steering box. The car steers great. I know people have substituted grease for the 600w lube in steering gears for decades but what should I do? Plan on a tear-down and possible steering box rebuild or at least a wash out and lube change. Reckon damage has been done to the gear if it still operates smoothly? Thanks.

1931 flamingo · 09-23-2019, 11:57 AM

I had a 31 with a Quail cap that didn't leak. Hung an aftermarket tank from the hood rod and as hose to it from the overflow. It would push water into the tank and when shut down suck it back into the radiator. Basically out of site. The important part is the sealing of the Quail. FWIW
Paul in CT

alexiskai · 09-23-2019, 11:58 AM

Often the choice to put grease in the steering box was driven by the lube leaking out, so if you just fill it with lube you may end up with a puddle.

I dunno, if the rest of the steering column is in good shape (not much play, no difficulty turning, horn rod working well) you might could postpone the steering box rebuild until you're looking for a project. The exception would be if you plan to tour; in that case I would at a minimum remove the housing cover to inspect the innards and determine the degree of wear.

Mad Mac · 09-23-2019, 03:40 PM

On start-up with a cold motor and a full radiator the water expands as it heats up and runs out the overflow pipe. My guess is that the seller did not like that happening and fitted the gallon jug to collect the overflow, which is sucked back into the radiator by vacuum, when the engine cools down. It is probably not necessary, but the seller may have thought there was an advantage in doing it.

There is an interesting history to this idea which was invented in 1929 by famous desert explorer Ralph Bagnold. He found that it completely prevented his Model A from losing any water, even when driving for hundreds of miles over the Libyan desert in very extreme conditions. He had nothing but praise for the Model A.

alexiskai · 09-23-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mac

It is probably not necessary, but the seller may have thought there was an advantage in doing it.

It's really nothing more than a reserve tank. A previous owner wanted to run the cooling system with X gallons in it, but that required more cubic inches of volume than exist in the stock cooling circuit. So you hook up this extra volume that doesn't do anything except provide extra capacity. Unlike the rest of the cooling system, it doesn't do any cooling – it doesn't help remove heat from the engine or transfer that heat to the outside air. It just provides a place for water to temporarily go.

But as implied above, if you're not running in the Libyan desert it's not clear that running a volume of water that requires a reserve tank is necessary.

Jacksonlll · 09-23-2019, 04:00 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

On your gear, add some 600 wt. and see how it does. If the sector shaft bushings are worn and you can move the pitman at all, up and down, plan on putting new ones in.
If the previous owner did not drive it at 45 mph for a solid 10 minutes, it probably did not overheat. If the core is old, it probably is plugged. Most are. Good luck and have fun with your new car.

wmws · 09-23-2019, 04:01 PM

My steering box has a grease fitting also. That means nothing. Just unscrew it and stick a little screw driver or something down there and see what is in there. I could be the normal 600 wt gear oil or it could be corn head grease. either will work just fine. Why would you tear into the box if it is steering just fine??

Beater · 09-23-2019, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmws

My steering box has a grease fitting also. That means nothing. Just unscrew it and stick a little screw driver or something down there and see what is in there. I could be the normal 600 wt gear oil or it could be corn head grease. either will work just fine. Why would you tear into the box if it is steering just fine??

what he said

thom · 09-23-2019, 04:46 PM

If it needs an overflow, and it sounds like from what I'm reading here that it doesn't, it will have to get something that looks better and/or is better hidden than the jug on there now!

I can not move/wiggle the pitman arm or detect any play in the box so maybe it will be ok. I will try to determine what is in it and go from there. Thanks.

1931 flamingo · 09-23-2019, 04:49 PM

Penn-Rite steering box lube available from Restoration Supply in CA...............NO leakee.
Paul in CT

c. sefton · 09-23-2019, 08:42 PM

I believe the "grease fitting" is correct for 1928. Its more of a lubrication fitting. Check judging standards for verification.

Richard in Anaheim CA · 09-24-2019, 12:48 AM

Steering gear takes oil not grease.

Recovery bottle will work great if you can seal the radiator cap . 28/29 screw type work great. Motor Meters and Quails are difficult to seal up. The purpose is not to have more water in the system. It is to eliminate AIR from the system so the pump doesn't cavitate and pump froth through the system which won't transfer heat worth a darn. After the system cycles in and back from the recovery tank a few times the air is gone and you will probably never have to add water again.

Richard
Anaheim CA.

Purdy Swoft · 09-24-2019, 10:31 PM

The thicker grease gun grease always helped to remove some slack in the worn seven tooth steering . I figure that is one of the reasons that it was commonly used in the seven tooth steering .

updraught · 09-25-2019, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mac

There is an interesting history to this idea which was invented in 1929 by famous desert explorer Ralph Bagnold. He found that it completely prevented his Model A from losing any water, even when driving for hundreds of miles over the Libyan desert in very extreme conditions. He had nothing but praise for the Model A.

This looks much better.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/flivv...-desert/#mmGal
https://sahara-overland.com/2017/09/...libyan-desert/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obi...ng-Newman.html

thom · 09-25-2019, 09:05 PM

I took the jug and the hoses that went with it off and tossed them. It sure looks better under the hood. I left a few inches of the added overflow hose hanging down toward the ground and I saw a little steam come out today, but I'll keep an eye on the radiator/water level and see what happens.

09-23-2019, 11:57 AM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: overflow JUG I had a 31 with a Quail cap that didn't leak. Hung an aftermarket tank from the hood rod and as hose to it from the overflow. It would push water into the tank and when shut down suck it back into the radiator. Basically out of site. The important part is the sealing of the Quail. FWIW Paul in CT

09-23-2019, 11:58 AM	#3
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,353	Re: overflow JUG Often the choice to put grease in the steering box was driven by the lube leaking out, so if you just fill it with lube you may end up with a puddle. I dunno, if the rest of the steering column is in good shape (not much play, no difficulty turning, horn rod working well) you might could postpone the steering box rebuild until you're looking for a project. The exception would be if you plan to tour; in that case I would at a minimum remove the housing cover to inspect the innards and determine the degree of wear.

09-23-2019, 03:40 PM	#4
Mad Mac Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: New Zealand Posts: 366	Re: overflow JUG On start-up with a cold motor and a full radiator the water expands as it heats up and runs out the overflow pipe. My guess is that the seller did not like that happening and fitted the gallon jug to collect the overflow, which is sucked back into the radiator by vacuum, when the engine cools down. It is probably not necessary, but the seller may have thought there was an advantage in doing it. There is an interesting history to this idea which was invented in 1929 by famous desert explorer Ralph Bagnold. He found that it completely prevented his Model A from losing any water, even when driving for hundreds of miles over the Libyan desert in very extreme conditions. He had nothing but praise for the Model A.

09-23-2019, 04:00 PM	#6
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: overflow JUG Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) On your gear, add some 600 wt. and see how it does. If the sector shaft bushings are worn and you can move the pitman at all, up and down, plan on putting new ones in. If the previous owner did not drive it at 45 mph for a solid 10 minutes, it probably did not overheat. If the core is old, it probably is plugged. Most are. Good luck and have fun with your new car.

09-23-2019, 04:01 PM	#7
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: overflow JUG My steering box has a grease fitting also. That means nothing. Just unscrew it and stick a little screw driver or something down there and see what is in there. I could be the normal 600 wt gear oil or it could be corn head grease. either will work just fine. Why would you tear into the box if it is steering just fine??

09-23-2019, 04:46 PM	#9
thom Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: western NC Posts: 139	Re: overflow JUG If it needs an overflow, and it sounds like from what I'm reading here that it doesn't, it will have to get something that looks better and/or is better hidden than the jug on there now! I can not move/wiggle the pitman arm or detect any play in the box so maybe it will be ok. I will try to determine what is in it and go from there. Thanks.

09-23-2019, 04:49 PM	#10
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: overflow JUG Penn-Rite steering box lube available from Restoration Supply in CA...............NO leakee. Paul in CT

09-23-2019, 08:42 PM	#11
c. sefton Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: N.W. Hoosierland Posts: 45	Re: overflow JUG I believe the "grease fitting" is correct for 1928. Its more of a lubrication fitting. Check judging standards for verification. __________________ C1-C2

09-24-2019, 12:48 AM	#12
Richard in Anaheim CA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Anaheim California Posts: 551	Re: overflow JUG Steering gear takes oil not grease. Recovery bottle will work great if you can seal the radiator cap . 28/29 screw type work great. Motor Meters and Quails are difficult to seal up. The purpose is not to have more water in the system. It is to eliminate AIR from the system so the pump doesn't cavitate and pump froth through the system which won't transfer heat worth a darn. After the system cycles in and back from the recovery tank a few times the air is gone and you will probably never have to add water again. Richard Anaheim CA.

09-24-2019, 10:31 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: overflow JUG The thicker grease gun grease always helped to remove some slack in the worn seven tooth steering . I figure that is one of the reasons that it was commonly used in the seven tooth steering .

09-25-2019, 09:05 PM	#15
thom Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: western NC Posts: 139	Re: overflow JUG I took the jug and the hoses that went with it off and tossed them. It sure looks better under the hood. I left a few inches of the added overflow hose hanging down toward the ground and I saw a little steam come out today, but I'll keep an eye on the radiator/water level and see what happens.