The Ford Barn

delco1946 · 07-02-2018, 11:28 AM

i have a 1955 fairlane crown victoria. I'll get "chatter" / vibrations when making sharper turns (generally lower speed). Any ideas in what causes this? The previous owner said "not enough vacuum" which i dont think i believe. Does this suggest old seals leaking pressure? Do i need to rebuild the cylinder? wrong fluid? etc? Thanks.

Christopher

delco1946 · 07-02-2018, 11:29 AM

Forgot to mention that i have brand new hoses... so that's not it

rotorwrench · 07-02-2018, 12:11 PM

When a cylinder is getting close to its limits, the pump starts to bypass more due to it not being able to push much fluid. This is usually associated with chatter movements. There may still be some air in the system that hasn't worked its way out too. The condition of the pump and the valves can also be suspect. Pump output pressure can be checked if a person has the right gauge & hose components. I wouldn't get too worried about it if the steering is near extremes since you don't have to go there all that often.

delco1946 · 07-02-2018, 01:25 PM

Hi thanks for the response. This seems be be happening half the time, anytime i turn onto a new street (90 degree turn), so not really extremes anymore. When you say the cylinder is reaching its limits, do you mean wearing out or if i were making a real sharp turn?

The power steering equip may be original and even if it isn't, it is probably decades old, so parts may be wearing out.

I drive this car weekly so not addressing the issue won't help my sanity haha. Thanks!

KULTULZ · 07-02-2018, 02:33 PM

Just a reminder-

These older systems have a filter in the reservoir that needs to be serviced and the fluid should be changed/flushed every so often. Assure proper belt tension and as said air in the system.

Without the proper pressure test equipment, it is all a guessing game anyways.

delco1946 · 07-02-2018, 04:33 PM

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I'll mention it to my mechanic and ask for a pressure test to diagnose. What results are good/ok/bad? Does this tell you about the just the pump? Should cylinders be tested or rebuilt? As i recall i had my mechanic install a new PS filter with the new hoses and they also put new fluid in it. A week later they added some sort of additive as it was starting to froth and spew everywhere and would not "settle down".

Merc Cruzer · 07-02-2018, 05:38 PM

Check your belt tension, if it is loose, it will slip and cause the chatter. Also if you have air in the system, turn the steering wheel lock to lock, that will clear any air in the system. We have basically the same systems.....these might help.

KULTULZ · 07-03-2018, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delco1946

I'll mention it to my mechanic and ask for a pressure test to diagnose. What results are good/ok/bad? Does this tell you about the just the pump? Should cylinders be tested or rebuilt?

As i recall i had my mechanic install a new PS filter with the new hoses and they also put new fluid in it. A week later they added some sort of additive as it was starting to froth and spew everywhere and would not "settle down".

Your SHOP MANUAL will give the test procedures and results.

It sounds like the system was not properly bled and/or it is sucking outside air somewhere in the system. Using a "conditioner" (or mechanic in a can) only masks the real problem.

54vicky · 07-03-2018, 08:35 AM

Merc Cruzer makes a valid point a loose belt will start to chatter if loose.if you have manual it will describe how to adjust belt tension.it usually is around a 1/2'' of deflection when pushed on.

delco1946 · 07-03-2018, 12:34 PM

I'll check the belt tension ASAP! I might also go ahead and order new gaskets for the bowl as they probably are decades old and aren't sealing well. thanks

rotorwrench · 07-03-2018, 12:50 PM

Fluids used for power steering usually have anti foaming agents mixed in I know type F does anyway. It may have some leakage internally that is causing the foaming. I wonder if this system uses an Eaton pump. Some of the pumps had no way to adjust system pressure. They were either within specs or not. If the pressure regulator bypasses too much then that can cause foaming. As was mentioned before, the factory test procedures are published in the applicable maintenance instructions. FoMoCo was pretty thorough on their maintenance instruction manuals.

What I meant before about cylinder limits is when you get close to the steering limits. A 90 degree turn isn't all that close to the limits. A U-turn would be getting there.

07-02-2018, 11:28 AM	#1
delco1946 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Gladstone, OR Posts: 170	power steering chatter i have a 1955 fairlane crown victoria. I'll get "chatter" / vibrations when making sharper turns (generally lower speed). Any ideas in what causes this? The previous owner said "not enough vacuum" which i dont think i believe. Does this suggest old seals leaking pressure? Do i need to rebuild the cylinder? wrong fluid? etc? Thanks. Christopher

07-02-2018, 11:29 AM	#2
delco1946 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Gladstone, OR Posts: 170	Re: power steering chatter Forgot to mention that i have brand new hoses... so that's not it

07-02-2018, 12:11 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: power steering chatter When a cylinder is getting close to its limits, the pump starts to bypass more due to it not being able to push much fluid. This is usually associated with chatter movements. There may still be some air in the system that hasn't worked its way out too. The condition of the pump and the valves can also be suspect. Pump output pressure can be checked if a person has the right gauge & hose components. I wouldn't get too worried about it if the steering is near extremes since you don't have to go there all that often.

07-02-2018, 01:25 PM	#4
delco1946 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Gladstone, OR Posts: 170	Re: power steering chatter Hi thanks for the response. This seems be be happening half the time, anytime i turn onto a new street (90 degree turn), so not really extremes anymore. When you say the cylinder is reaching its limits, do you mean wearing out or if i were making a real sharp turn? The power steering equip may be original and even if it isn't, it is probably decades old, so parts may be wearing out. I drive this car weekly so not addressing the issue won't help my sanity haha. Thanks!

07-02-2018, 02:33 PM	#5
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,471	Re: power steering chatter Just a reminder- These older systems have a filter in the reservoir that needs to be serviced and the fluid should be changed/flushed every so often. Assure proper belt tension and as said air in the system. Without the proper pressure test equipment, it is all a guessing game anyways. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

07-02-2018, 04:33 PM	#6
delco1946 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Gladstone, OR Posts: 170	Re: power steering chatter Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'll mention it to my mechanic and ask for a pressure test to diagnose. What results are good/ok/bad? Does this tell you about the just the pump? Should cylinders be tested or rebuilt? As i recall i had my mechanic install a new PS filter with the new hoses and they also put new fluid in it. A week later they added some sort of additive as it was starting to froth and spew everywhere and would not "settle down".

07-03-2018, 08:35 AM	#9
54vicky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Oakville Ontario Posts: 586	Re: power steering chatter Merc Cruzer makes a valid point a loose belt will start to chatter if loose.if you have manual it will describe how to adjust belt tension.it usually is around a 1/2'' of deflection when pushed on.

07-03-2018, 12:34 PM	#10
delco1946 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Gladstone, OR Posts: 170	Re: power steering chatter I'll check the belt tension ASAP! I might also go ahead and order new gaskets for the bowl as they probably are decades old and aren't sealing well. thanks

07-03-2018, 12:50 PM	#11
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: power steering chatter Fluids used for power steering usually have anti foaming agents mixed in I know type F does anyway. It may have some leakage internally that is causing the foaming. I wonder if this system uses an Eaton pump. Some of the pumps had no way to adjust system pressure. They were either within specs or not. If the pressure regulator bypasses too much then that can cause foaming. As was mentioned before, the factory test procedures are published in the applicable maintenance instructions. FoMoCo was pretty thorough on their maintenance instruction manuals. What I meant before about cylinder limits is when you get close to the steering limits. A 90 degree turn isn't all that close to the limits. A U-turn would be getting there. Last edited by rotorwrench; 07-03-2018 at 12:57 PM.