The Ford Barn

mngreen · 12-19-2019, 01:16 PM

Any suggestions for torque on an original cast iron Cragar OHV head that has been in place on a B block for over 50 years and never been torqued???

There is a little seepage through the head gasket at the rear of the engine and am getting a little oil in the coolant (but not vice versa).

johnneilson · 12-19-2019, 02:21 PM

Short answer is 55 ft lbs torque
Same spec as standard

rotorwrench · 12-19-2019, 06:49 PM

That's an unusual situation. Must have been a project that wasn't working out to be setting that long unfinished. I'd be curious whether it's a 2-port or a 4-port set up. I think you can get parts for them but I don't know for sure. Dan Price is doing some aluminum Cragar set ups as far as I know.

daveymc29 · 12-19-2019, 11:59 PM

Any number for Dan Price? email, etc.?

rotorwrench · 12-20-2019, 10:51 AM

This is his web site. https://www.dan4banger.com/

A lot of Crane Gartz's stuff was Miller-Schofield before Crane bought the head patterns and formed Cragar.

Here is another outfit that messes with them.

https://www.millerhi-speedheads.com/index.html

Harry Miller was a race car builder and has quite a history. Ole Evinrude used one of his early bicycle engine designs to build his first boat engine. He in turn taught a couple of young guys how to fabricate a carburetor. Those two guys were named Harley and Davidson. When Harry moved to CA and started a machine shop with a partner, Fred Offenhouser was one of his first employees. The story goes that Miller and Schofield formed a side company and had a falling out which ended up in a bankruptcy of that company. When Miller went bankrupt is 1933, the Miller company went to Fred Offenhouser and Miller-Schofield (cylinder heads) went to Crane Gartz & a partner so two companies formed out of all that break up. Miller went on to design & build more race cars with Preston Tucker. Cragar ended up with Bell auto so two product lines came out of that as well.

Jim Brierley · 12-20-2019, 12:00 PM

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Craney is spelt Craney. -

All early Miller's and Cragar's were 2-ports, and would accept stock Model A manifolds. Dan Price makes what he calls a 4-port Cragar, it is his design but will accept stock exhaust manifolds, His intakes are on the left side and are of his design. Steve Serr is starting production of a 4-port, design is similar to the Cook but niceley re-designed combustion chamber, ports, etc. I think he calls it a 4-port Miller???
It will not accept stock manifolds.

California Travieso · 12-20-2019, 12:16 PM

Nice history Jim. You need to write another book.

David Serrano

rotorwrench · 12-20-2019, 05:06 PM

I think most folks pronounce it as Craney but all the info I've read has it spelled Crane. Now I only go by what info I read since these guys all died a long time ago. Crager has their own history and it is spelled that way on their site. The History piece by Steve Serr titled "The Offy's Red Headed Step Sister" from Hot Rod Magazine (I think) is a pretty good history of Harry Miller and he spelled it Crane Gartz. I don't know what his references are but I know he has been playing around with the Miller High Speed Head for a long time.

That history of Harry Miller is linked on the "Press" tab in that Miller High Speed Heads web site that I linked in my post number 5. I'm no expert on all the people involved but I've read a lot of information about them. There have been a number of reproductions over the years but it depends on which design they are reproducing as to whether they are notable in performance characteristics. I've heard that some Cragar stuff didn't get the results that they wanted back in the day and there were several versions that were further experiments with the Miller/Goossen designs. Art Inama in Denver made some cast iron ones some time ago and there have been more aluminum ones since.

This is the best references I have.

Jim Brierley · 12-21-2019, 12:17 PM

Crane was, and may still be, their company name, sinks, toilets, etc. Craney was Mr. Gartz first name.
David, I have used-up all the words that I know, however I am now working on a chapter on my good friend Dan Iandola, it will be added to my book in the next printing.

johnneilson · 12-21-2019, 12:42 PM

Mr. Brierley,

Please put me down on the distribution list for the next printing.

John

Jim Brierley · 12-22-2019, 11:45 AM

OK, but what you really want is the printing after the one I have on order. The ones on order are exactly like the past few, with two pages numbered 72! The one after that will include a chapter on my friend Dan Iandola, probably still with the odd numbered pages???

12-19-2019, 01:16 PM	#1
mngreen Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA Posts: 155	Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Any suggestions for torque on an original cast iron Cragar OHV head that has been in place on a B block for over 50 years and never been torqued??? There is a little seepage through the head gasket at the rear of the engine and am getting a little oil in the coolant (but not vice versa).

12-19-2019, 02:21 PM	#2
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,054	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Short answer is 55 ft lbs torque Same spec as standard __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

12-19-2019, 06:49 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head That's an unusual situation. Must have been a project that wasn't working out to be setting that long unfinished. I'd be curious whether it's a 2-port or a 4-port set up. I think you can get parts for them but I don't know for sure. Dan Price is doing some aluminum Cragar set ups as far as I know.

12-19-2019, 11:59 PM	#4
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Any number for Dan Price? email, etc.?

12-20-2019, 10:51 AM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head This is his web site. https://www.dan4banger.com/ A lot of Crane Gartz's stuff was Miller-Schofield before Crane bought the head patterns and formed Cragar. Here is another outfit that messes with them. https://www.millerhi-speedheads.com/index.html Harry Miller was a race car builder and has quite a history. Ole Evinrude used one of his early bicycle engine designs to build his first boat engine. He in turn taught a couple of young guys how to fabricate a carburetor. Those two guys were named Harley and Davidson. When Harry moved to CA and started a machine shop with a partner, Fred Offenhouser was one of his first employees. The story goes that Miller and Schofield formed a side company and had a falling out which ended up in a bankruptcy of that company. When Miller went bankrupt is 1933, the Miller company went to Fred Offenhouser and Miller-Schofield (cylinder heads) went to Crane Gartz & a partner so two companies formed out of all that break up. Miller went on to design & build more race cars with Preston Tucker. Cragar ended up with Bell auto so two product lines came out of that as well. Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-20-2019 at 11:25 AM.

12-20-2019, 12:00 PM	#6
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,087	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Craney is spelt Craney. - All early Miller's and Cragar's were 2-ports, and would accept stock Model A manifolds. Dan Price makes what he calls a 4-port Cragar, it is his design but will accept stock exhaust manifolds, His intakes are on the left side and are of his design. Steve Serr is starting production of a 4-port, design is similar to the Cook but niceley re-designed combustion chamber, ports, etc. I think he calls it a 4-port Miller??? It will not accept stock manifolds.

12-20-2019, 12:16 PM	#7
California Travieso Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Moreno Valley, CA Posts: 946	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Nice history Jim. You need to write another book. David Serrano

12-20-2019, 05:06 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head I think most folks pronounce it as Craney but all the info I've read has it spelled Crane. Now I only go by what info I read since these guys all died a long time ago. Crager has their own history and it is spelled that way on their site. The History piece by Steve Serr titled "The Offy's Red Headed Step Sister" from Hot Rod Magazine (I think) is a pretty good history of Harry Miller and he spelled it Crane Gartz. I don't know what his references are but I know he has been playing around with the Miller High Speed Head for a long time. That history of Harry Miller is linked on the "Press" tab in that Miller High Speed Heads web site that I linked in my post number 5. I'm no expert on all the people involved but I've read a lot of information about them. There have been a number of reproductions over the years but it depends on which design they are reproducing as to whether they are notable in performance characteristics. I've heard that some Cragar stuff didn't get the results that they wanted back in the day and there were several versions that were further experiments with the Miller/Goossen designs. Art Inama in Denver made some cast iron ones some time ago and there have been more aluminum ones since. This is the best references I have. Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-21-2019 at 07:24 PM.

12-21-2019, 12:17 PM	#9
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,087	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Crane was, and may still be, their company name, sinks, toilets, etc. Craney was Mr. Gartz first name. David, I have used-up all the words that I know, however I am now working on a chapter on my good friend Dan Iandola, it will be added to my book in the next printing.

12-21-2019, 12:42 PM	#10
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,054	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head Mr. Brierley, Please put me down on the distribution list for the next printing. John __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

12-22-2019, 11:45 AM	#11
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,087	Re: Torque on a vintage Cragar OHV head OK, but what you really want is the printing after the one I have on order. The ones on order are exactly like the past few, with two pages numbered 72! The one after that will include a chapter on my friend Dan Iandola, probably still with the odd numbered pages???