Distributor questions

[Dbbc]

Still trying to get my car started after the car only started, ran rough for a few seconds and then died.
I have change both plates in the distributor as well as the condenser, new points, new body, cap and rotor.
Howeverthe car still does not start. Not even an hint of the cylinder firing.
I have not got the chance to see if there are sparks out of the spark plug. However when I was trying to time the car, I use a 6v light bulb to check the opening of the point during the timing and no matter what I did (key on or off, point closed or open) the light was always on.

Could it be that the wires between the plates is shorting? Any suggestions as why the light stays always on?

Also where the condenser get tighten to the lower plate (hole on the driver side) do I need a insulated washer?

Thank you for all the suggestions you may have and I will try to get to the bottom of it on Saturday.

[30Ford]

My coil wire was broke when I got my car ran very rough ...i also replaced the bushing in the distributor

[Tom Wesenberg]

Do you have compression? Is the cam gear good?

The condenser ground strap only uses a screw and lock washer.

How is the test light connected?

[Larry Seemann]

Is the "pigtail wire" -the wire that connects the upper and lower plates - touching the distributor casting where the wire connects to the points? There is very little room there.
Also, I've seen the armored cable screwed in too far. Good Luck!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Dbbc,

Mr. Wesenberg commented on what I noticed:

With very few electrical details described, your mentioning the keyed switch whether "on" or "off" makes no difference with the illumination of your test lamp .... this appears to be a concern. Your overhead garage light will not turn off & on either.

For example, if your test light is connected to a terminal at the end of your ignition switch circuit, turning the switch "off" & "on" should turn your test lamp "off" & "on".

If need be, Mr. Bratton's 2014 catalog on page 74, (under Switches & Cables), indicates a diagram with (6) things to check when key is "off" & "on" ..... this may be a good upstream circuit to check in addition to your distributor further down the line.

[Charles Coe]

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The vendors sell an insulating washer to go where the screw attaches the condenser to the lower plate. However it is not necessary for everything to work as long as the lower plate and the screw are not touching the distributor body.

[George Miller]

some times with the repo lower plates, if you screw the cable from the dist in to far it will short out. I never had that problem because always use original parts. But some that are in our club have had problems with new plates.

[Dick M]

Check to see that the plug on the end of the key switch lead is not screwed too far into the distributor body. If you have it too far in, it will push the back of the lower plate is up against the distributor body and you will have a short. Use a multi meter using the ohm scale. Put a small piece of folded paper between the points. The points need to be in an open position. Turn on the key. Place one probe of the multi meter on the open point. Place the other probe anywhere against the distributor body and then the upper plate. The meter should not show zero. If you find the meter showing zero you have a short in the distributor. It is usually the plug is screwed in too far or the pigtail wire to the upper plate is shorting out against the distributor body or upper plate.

[Dbbc]

Spend a good part of the weekend trying to figure the issues with the car not firing. Unfortunately to no avail. I took apart the distributor and went thru the process of checking everything following Les Andrews procedures. Everything seems to check ok, I am getting spark at the end of the coil wire as well as at the point (however not sure about the quality of the spark, seems ok). I do have a new body and rotor, how critical is the equal spacing between the rotor and the contacts? I got pretty .025 on 3 and 4, 2 a little more and 1 has a larger gap.
(I am not sure if the rotor will be able to reach the .025 gap with the contact on 1, already file contact 4 quite a bit).
Secondly regarding the coil, following Les instructions. I should be able to measure 1.6 to 1.8 ohms between the lead (I got .5) and about 6.7 to 10 ohms between the lead and the center of the coil ( I got over 10 ohms). I bought a new coil and get about the same measurement ? So I am confuse if have an issue with the coil (the coil give me sparks, but not sure if they are strong enough). Could that be an issue?
Lastly could the timing be so off that the car does not fire. I am thinking that I am timing the car correctly but on the old rotor and distributor body someone put a mark on it, but it is 180 degrees form the contact to #1 cylinder? I am missing something?
thank you for all your suggestions.

[Brentwood Bob]

Got anybody close by to walk you thru this?
Retiming sounds like a problem, and the rebuilding of the distributor, and a distributor problem.
deal with one issue at a time.
Bob

[Bob C]

If you follow Les's timing instructions you are probaably 180 out.
Use Marco's instructions http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

Bob

[tbirdtbird]

between the 2 low voltage coil terminals you should be getting about 1.5 ohms, and you say you are getting 0.5.
This is not right, unless you need to zero out your ohmeter. Each time you use the meter for ohms you need to hold the two leads together and adjust the adjusting knob until the scale reads zero. If you cannot zero out this way then you need a new battery in the ohmeter.

Start with this and get back to us.

You would be well off to find a mechanically inclined person close by to assist you

BTW when you do get a spark from the coil wire to a cyl head nut, the color should be BLUE that is how you tell a good spark, from the color. Yellow is a weak spark and won't jump far at all. Orange is even worse. So, what color are you getting

[Dbbc]

I have tested the distributor after I replace both the upper and lower plate.
I am using the multimeter and If I check the movable point (points being open) against the body or the upper plate there is not continuity. So I am guessing it is good. I also check with the volt meter that I get 6v at the end of the switch cable with I do.
Regarding the coil measurement, the strange thing is that I am getting about the same measurement on the new coil I purchased.
I did use the method to time the car from the site that Bob C mentioned.

[tbirdtbird]

as stated,
"This is not right, unless you need to zero out your ohmeter. Each time you use the meter for ohms you need to hold the two leads together and adjust the adjusting knob until the scale reads zero. If you cannot zero out this way then you need a new battery in the ohmeter.

Start with this and get back to us"

If the method of testing is not correct you will not get the right answer from either coil.

And the spark color is?

and can you confirm that this is a 6V system

[Dbbc]

Yes it is a 6volt system. I will double check again following tbirdtbird instructions.
Using the x 1 scale for the lead to lead check, and switching to the x 10 for the lead to the center of the coil.
The spark looks white.

[Mitch//pa]

Send me a plane ticket and I'll be happy to check it for you
The wife would like to go also if possible

[Mike V. Florida]

Here is some past history on this problem;


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159476

[Mike V. Florida]

The ammeter is a very useful instrument. When you enter your car before you do anything put your foot on the brake and the meter should move to the right denoting the brake light is on. If the car refuses to start while cranking it over, observe the ammeter. The needle should be alternately moving from left to right past the zero mark. This is being caused by the ignition points opening and closing. and it is telling you the ignition primary circuit is working correctly and the problem is elsewhere. The ignition system has two parts, primary and secondary. The primary is the low voltage side and the secondary is the high voltage side. If the ammeter "wiggles" when you apply the starter is indicates that you have voltage from the battery, through the fuse, to the terminal block, through the ammeter the primary of the coil, the ignition switch, into the distributor bottom plate, the condenser is not shorted, the wire from the bottom plate to the top plate, through the points to ground.

Now this only works if your car is wired as specified after 1929 to have the ignition current pass through the ammeter or changed in accordance with the service bulletins. In 1929 Ford moved the black primary wire that runs to the ignition coil from the passenger side terminal of the junction box on the firewall to the driver’s side terminal to pass the voltage to the ignition through the meter.

Also, when you start the engine and rev it up past idle the ammeter should move to the right. This is telling you the generator has taken over the car’s electrical load from the battery and is also supplying charging current back to the battery. If the needle stays at zero or moves to the left it is telling you the generator is not working.


Now for details,

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...87&postcount=4

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Dbbc,

Fire at the points & fire at the end of coil wire means fire made it to the distributor; however, for starting your engine, unless electrical energy travels to the tip of no. 1 spark plug tip when the timing pin slips in, you can spend days watching sparks at the end of your coil wire & points.

Please try going to the end of the line where the buck stops & be mindful that for your engine to start & run correctly, spark has to occur at the no. 1 spark plug tip, when the timing pin slips in & when the spark plug is "inside" the combustion chamber.

Very Simple Model A Engine "Electrical" Test:

A. Please assemble your distributor & remove all (4) spark plugs while still connecting spark plugs to your distributor body, & laying all (4) spark plugs on their sides to make sure they are all (4) grounded on the engine's head.

B. Retard spark lever all the way upwards, & turn your ignition switch "ON".

C. Remove front timing pin, turn pin end for end, & insert in your timing pin hole.

D. Turn your engine with hand crank with pressure on timing pin until timing pin slips in the timing gear.

E. At the moment that the timing pin slips in, spark plug no. 1, ( nearest the radiator), should fire.

F. After precisely following steps A. through E., please let us know exactly what happened at the tip of spark plug no. 1 at the moment that the timing pin slipped in.

The reporting of this information would appear to narrow possibilities for not starting.

[Dbbc]

Mahalo for all the useful information, might take me a couple of days to get to it.
Will get back to you.
Again thanks for taking the time to troubleshoot with me. Dying to get back in the car and driving.