Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2019, 01:29 PM   #1
ursus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,031
Default Rear Axle Messtoration

Among other modifications, the previous owner of my coupe welded lower shock mounts onto the rear axle tubes midway between the banjo and brake backing plates. He used 1/4 inch steel plate that is welded to the tubes around a 180 degree arc. The welds attach the plate along both sides of the plate/tube interface. Nice welding job, but I'm restoring this car and need to remove these.

I am looking at using a 4 inch cutting wheel to remove and a grinding wheel to finish up. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!
ursus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 01:37 PM   #2
Bruce_MO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 293
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

A couple thoughts... Maybe cut the majority off with a torch, and just do clean-up grinding. Or take them to a local welder and let them cut off the excess. They'll probably be good enough with a torch that you'll have just a little grinding to do (definitely true for me that I'd do a %$%##^-y job!). I find folks like that are sympathetic to restorers and don't charge much for their services. And I would assume there's a decent amount of grease and flammable gunk in the housings that you'll have some flames and a ton of stinky smoke!
Bruce_MO is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-09-2019, 02:20 PM   #3
ursus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,031
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_MO View Post
A couple thoughts... Maybe cut the majority off with a torch, and just do clean-up grinding. Or take them to a local welder and let them cut off the excess. They'll probably be good enough with a torch that you'll have just a little grinding to do (definitely true for me that I'd do a %$%##^-y job!). I find folks like that are sympathetic to restorers and don't charge much for their services. And I would assume there's a decent amount of grease and flammable gunk in the housings that you'll have some flames and a ton of stinky smoke!
Thanks for the suggestions! My current situation is that the axle is intact but out of the car and I have no means of hauling it 20 miles to a welding shop. One concern is that anything that generates enough heat to cause the oil smoking might result in distortion of the axle tube alignment. I recall that Brent Terry has commented on here about finding axles tubes that were no longer "square" to the frame due to abuse.
ursus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 02:30 PM   #4
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,460
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

My suggestion would be to try to find some serviceable replacement axle housings.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 03:37 PM   #5
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 2,857
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I have good housings if you go that direction.
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 04:17 PM   #6
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,414
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus View Post
Thanks for the suggestions! My current situation is that the axle is intact but out of the car and I have no means of hauling it 20 miles to a welding shop. One concern is that anything that generates enough heat to cause the oil smoking might result in distortion of the axle tube alignment. I recall that Brent Terry has commented on here about finding axles tubes that were no longer "square" to the frame due to abuse.

How much heat do you think was there when the brackets were welded on


Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 05:44 PM   #7
ursus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,031
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Brentwood Bob: I do have access to some good housings but would prefer not to dismantle a rear end that was completely rebuilt with new bearings and ring & pinion.

Bob C: Good point about the heat from the welding job. The car did drive straight on the road so the welding must have been done by somebody who knew what they were doing.
ursus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 05:47 PM   #8
whirnot
Senior Member
 
whirnot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bend Or.
Posts: 871
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Last time I checked, Bill Barlow in Bend had 21 sets of housings for sale.
__________________
Bill Worden

1929 Roadster
1929 Briggs Town Sedan
1930 Closed Cab pickup
1951 Ford F1

High Desert Model A's
whirnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 06:10 PM   #9
miff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 123
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

To me it's not worth to try to cut off the supports . The cutting ,grinding , and the chance of grinding through the axle housing . Save time and just get replacements. It will save time in the long run . I can understand you not wanting to take the housing apart.Best of luck on what ever you choose to do .
miff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 08:26 PM   #10
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I would try grinding them off. Its all about finesse. Use a 1/16 or better an 040 cutting wheel. (O40 is a little harder to find at the big box stores.)

I would not worry about any "heat affected zone." The remainder of the axle is plenty strong enough. And while straightness is a concern, it is unlikely welding would have changed the axle housing measurably.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 09:17 PM   #11
Ray P
Member
 
Ray P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Lexington Kentucky
Posts: 38
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I had the same exact situation. The shock mounts you refer to were sold by J C Whitney back in the sixties. I know because I bought a set and had them installed on my coupe back then. They turned out not to be such a great idea so later I decided to remove them. It was a fairly tedious job but it turned out well. I didnít use a torch. I used a pneumatic grinding tool to cut away as much of the weld material as possible. I did have to cut away some of the metal strap to free it from the axle. After grinding off the remaining weld itís hardly noticable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ray P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 10:29 AM   #12
Jim Brierley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 2,908
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Replace the housings! When welded on they distort, putting a strain on axles and wheel bearings. When we weld on race car axle housings, we have to straighten them.
Jim Brierley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 11:04 AM   #13
100IH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 896
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I wouldn't assume that the innards were correctly set up with all new parts.
100IH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 11:48 AM   #14
olebmw
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 21
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I recently removed shock mounts from the axle housings.
Jim, how do I check to see if the housings are warped?
olebmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 01:21 PM   #15
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,345
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Not Jim but one way to check would be to mount the trumpet end of the housing against a face plate of a lathe and "spin" the housing to check for run-out of the small end.

An acceptable mount match would be the flange of the housing. One could bolt a pumpkin/banjo to the faceplte (check for run-out of pumpkin flange too before adding on) and then mount the trumpet housing to this.

A lathe chuck directly to the trumpet flange could do this less accurately.

Given the looseness of the Model A differential housing cage/gears (0.010 is target backlash) it would take a considerable amount of warp to condemn a housing.

On assembly, one would want to be sure the axle shaft can be held "centered" in the small end of the housing with little or no side pressure (so you don't wipe out the seal at this point.)

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.

Last edited by Joe K; 08-10-2019 at 01:27 PM.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 02:46 PM   #16
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,460
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

A machine shop that is capable of machining the bearing hub can also straighten the housing. I have seen it done. The flange is bolted to a face plate on a lathe, the unit is rotated and the hub end is observed. If it is low the opposite side of the housing is heated with a torch. This procedure is continued around the circumference until the hub end is straight, then it is machined and a replacement race is pressed on with an interference press fit. I have had a number of them done this way.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 04:23 PM   #17
john in illinois
Senior Member
 
john in illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,850
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Jim is right. Welding on one side of an axle housing will pull it in the direction of the weld. If you weld a bracket on a housing you should continue the weld all the way around,360*. Even then it should be checked.

John
__________________
Welcome each day
john in illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 06:10 PM   #18
bmklawt
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Holland MI
Posts: 17
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

I had to do the same thing to a Doodle Bug I'm making with an "A" axle, I would cut off what you can with a cut off wheel, the thinner the cutoff wheel the faster it will go, and then use some 40 grit flapper wheels to sand down the remaining. The flapper discs will make quick work of cleaning up the welds, I would think you could get the job done in less than an hour.

Flapper disc, Neiko 11142A, 10 for $17.00 on Amazon
bmklawt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2019, 05:27 AM   #19
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,235
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

If you are going for a show car, cut them off after the car is drivable. If it’s going to be a driver, leave them on.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #20
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,046
Default Re: Rear Axle Messtoration

Quote:
how do I check to see if the housings are warped?
I would stand the housing on a perfectly flat and level surface, place a known good level on the top end, rotate as necessary to see if it's level in all directions.
__________________
Don't go away mad, just go away.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:21 AM.