Off Topic - Was this the beginning of the downturn of Detroit?

[roccaas]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/au....html?_r=1&hpw

Rode in a rusty Vega, wouldn't get near a Pinto, kinda like the Gremlin, especially with the V-8! Would like a Cosworth Vega.

[Georgew48]

I had a Gremlin, it was one of the best cars I have ever owned.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Going through that era was like going through puberty with voice changes, pimples etc. We eventually got through it. Thank goodness.

[Richard Wilson]

There is a Gremlin on a used car lot about 50 miles from me. I have been tempted to stop and see how they would trade on one of my Model A's.

It would be something different at cruise in's.

[Wuudie]

I had a 74 Pinto- Okay done laughing!!?!?!?!?
When I had it I hated it, now I think it was the greatest........ .

When we put it away in the barn it had over 300,000 miles on the engine YES NOT A TYPO 300,000

My uncle bought it new for work commuted from Philly, PA Area to Newark, NJ for 10 years.
My cousin got it used it in college Bradley, Illinois. 4 years
Then my brother got the car and used it at Temple 4 years
Then I got it and used it in College. 4 years

In fact during a flash flood- the car was buried over the tires in Water- the next day I took shower curtain out of the bathroom used it to cover the wet seat- the damn thing started up

Then my dad used it as a commuter to go back and forth to work, and on occasion 100 mile trips to the Farm.

[gweilbaker]

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Pintos aren't that bad, their engines are sought to put in Model A s!

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by roccaas

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/au....html?_r=1&hpw

Rode in a rusty Vega, wouldn't get near a Pinto, kinda like the Gremlin, especially with the V-8! Would like a Cosworth Vega.

The down turn of Detroit started back in the 60ts when people started to move out to the suburbs and small towns.
When I was growing up Detroit was a great city.

[willobs]

Down turn was when yuppies thought foreign cars were cool and a status item. Also when Consumer Reports started bad mouth US cars recommended Jap cars ( Wonder who got paid off?}

[steve s]

Originally Posted by George Miller

The down turn of Detroit started back in the 60ts when people started to move out to the suburbs and small towns.
When I was growing up Detroit was a great city.

I agree with George. I believe that the interstate highway system (the NON-interstate part thereof) enabled the demise of most big U.S. cities. In Detroit, some shameful "block busting" by unscrupulous real estate dealers really pushed it along, too. Then, the race riots sealed the deal.

I used to drive my A all over the Detroit area. I remember once after parking it near the Ford Rouge plant, coming out and having it covered in red dust--that part wasn't so great.

Steve

[steve s]

Originally Posted by willobs

Down turn was when yuppies thought foreign cars were cool and a status item. Also when Consumer Reports started bad mouth US cars recommended Jap cars ( Wonder who got paid off?}

Consumer Reports reports what their reader surveys tell them, along with their own data--they don't make stuff up. Detroit was making good looking junk, and then in the 70's it wasn't even good looking. I remember asking my Junior Achievement mentors, who worked in GM, about GM's then-notorious planned obsolescence program--they smiled and said they preferred to call it "dynamic" obsolescence.

In 1981, when Detroit was really on it's back, I was determined to buy American to replace our ghastly 71 Dart. WHen I wanted to test drive a new Pontiac, I gave up after two hours in the waiting room while two different service truck failed to get the one liked it to start! When I went to try a new Chevy, the headlight knob pulled off in my hand. When I test drove a new Aries, it stalled out and stranded me along the road--I was really determined to buy American so I bought it anyway--big mistake. It broke this Michigan boy's heart to have to do it, but my next car was a Toyota, and I was amazed--it really was like everybody had said! You just buy them and drive them--I didn't think that was possible. Sad to say, but the U.S. auto industry got what it so richly deserved. But I've let all that go.

Steve

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by steve s

I agree with George. I believe that the interstate highway system (the NON-interstate part thereof) enabled the demise of most big U.S. cities. In Detroit, some shameful "block busting" by unscrupulous real estate dealers really pushed it along, too. Then, the race riots sealed the deal.

I used to drive my A all over the Detroit area. I remember once after parking it near the Ford Rouge plant, coming out and having it covered in red dust--that part wasn't so great.

Steve

I grew up in Flint same thing, dust from the foundry's and paint smell in the air from the body plants. Those parts of town the house were cheaper than the good areas.

[Uncle Bob]

Having lived through that era I've come away with a different take. Some have speculated that Ford fired the first salvo of decline when the Whiz Kids were brought on board shortly after WWII. The mixed successes and failures of the '50s would make a good argument, but the industry overall did reasonably well. What it did do, IMHO, is set the stage for the belief that the accountants (as opposed to "car guys") were the ones to put on the fast track to top management. This all came to fruition in the early to mid '60s where the bean counters made all sorts of decisions that, over time, would cripple the U.S. industry. The most egregious in my mind was Lynn Townsend at Mopar. His philosophy was to "decontent" and cut Q.C. which crippled a smaller Chrysler faster than Ford or GM. Like him or not, Iacocca had the mind of an engineer AND marketer and showed how that form of leadership could bring a company back......however fleeting it ended up being for other reasons. Politics has contributed mightily, but we don't like to go there on this site.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Having lived through that era I've come away with a different take. Some have speculated that Ford fired the first salvo of decline when the Whiz Kids were brought on board shortly after WWII. The mixed successes and failures of the '50s would make a good argument, but the industry overall did reasonably well. What it did do, IMHO, is set the stage for the belief that the accountants (as opposed to "car guys") were the ones to put on the fast track to top management. This all came to fruition in the early to mid '60s where the bean counters made all sorts of decisions that, over time, would cripple the U.S. industry. The most egregious in my mind was Lynn Townsend at Mopar. His philosophy was to "decontent" and cut Q.C. which crippled a smaller Chrysler faster than Ford or GM. Like him or not, Iacocca had the mind of an engineer AND marketer and showed how that form of leadership could bring a company back......however fleeting it ended up being for other reasons. Politics has contributed mightily, but we don't like to go there on this site.

Working for a big company in my later years, I have to agree with you about the bean counters, they hurt our company some also. It takes special person to lead a big company.

[1930artdeco]

I learned to drive in a pinto and loved it. Of course I had a wagon with a V-6 and it never left me stranded or broke down. But I grew up in the late 80's and heard the line that Japan hired 10K engineers and detroit hired 10K lawyers when the smog stuff came about. Under those conditions detroit got what it deserved. My first 'new' car was a 97 Ranger and I loved that truck up until it got totalled.

Mike

[peters180a/170b]

I miss seeing American Motors Pacer ,,,"not" now that was a U G L Y CAR!

[mrtexas]

As an owner of a 63 Corvette as well as 2 Model As, I can say that GM has been plotting it's demise for the last 50 years at least. Come on, why would you design an odometer and many other parts that fail at 40,000 miles?

[Keith True]

It seems like the US carmakers shot themselves in the foot when trying to band-aid the smog problems.It seems like AMC kept the things simplest.They at least had proven engines,and almost all of the smog equipment could be removed without adverse effects.I've had a bunch of Ramblers,I liked all of them.My favorite to drive was the Pacer.If you could sneak up on it with your eyes shut most were amazed at how well the car performed.I had a Pacer X with a 304 V8 in it.(International harvester)That car was a real sleeper.I had an SC Rambler,an American with a 390 four speed in it.That car was brutal.I had a bunch or Pintos,they could be made to last.My sister bought a 77 Pinto wagon in 77 at the time of the Pinto scare.An old lady had ordered it,waited a couple of months for it,and within a few days of picking it up the exploding Pinto story broke.The dealer wouldn't take it back,they were already stuck with a couple dozen of them.She traded it on a new Pontiac Sunbird,she got nothing for her week old car.My sister bought it for far less than half price.I cut the tank-puncturing pin off the crossmember and she ran it for around 14 years.I took it over,re-ringed it,new cam,bearings,and gaskets and my wife got 5 more years out of it.I sold it to a semi-disabled man who drives 14 miles a week about 10 years ago and he is still driving it.I am driving a Ford Ranger withe the old Pinto motor in it.Same engine with an 8 plug head.That has 372,000 miles on it and still burns no oil.The Vega was the real joke,nice little car with no engine.Real bright idea to spray the cylinder walls with chrome as a final finish.One overheat and they were gone.No boring out.

[jeep44]

I had a pinto back when it was new-not a bad car at all-reliable,durable,very useful with it's big hatchback, and suprisingly capable in deep snow-those little narrow tires just seemed to cut through the snow like skis.

[steve s]

I had a friend with a baby poop yellow Edsal.

Originally Posted by WardAZ

Something went terribly wrong at Ford in 1970. My wife's family had a Maverick in the factory color of Freudian Gilt. Makes you want to hurl some food even today just thinking about that color.

Other color choices that year were:
Bring 'em Back Olive
Three Putt Green
Last Stand Custard
There She Blue
Young Turquoise
Good Clean Fawn
Counter Revolutionary Red
Hulla Blue
Anti-Establish Mint

Perhaps some weed or LSD made its way to Ford's design and paint departments back then??

[Art Bjornestad]

They are still at it. My 2009 Saturn just has the 60's problems that made GM a swear word. My trunk lock keeps falling on the ground, the radio doesn't work, the trip meter has failed, the compass needs to be calibrated every single time I start the car, I get 17MPG in the city and the tire and wind niose is beyond description.........THERE, I got it off my chest