Jay piercy's 30 coupe is on ebay...

[swo4rd]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-Ford-M...p=mtr#viTabs_0


Such an incredible labor of love and intense study...Always sad to see a Henry restoration being on eBay....
Should go to Auburn.

[ronn]

AND A VERY GOOD CHANCE THAT IT WONT EVEN GET A BID AT THAT PRICE.
couldnt redo it for that, but it is a coupe afterall, not an A 400 or 180.

[Dick Steinkamp]

A beautiful car, but the best way to find out how the market values the car, is to start with a low opening bid but put the reserve wherever you want it. It will bid to the amount the market values the car.

A one paragraph description and 10 pictures is not going to sell a $50,000 car...any car, let alone a Model A Coupe.

The "appraisal" means little to nothing. Appraisers know who their customer is .

The description says that it is Chicle Drab/Copra Drab. You could have fooled me.

[jim galli]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

A one paragraph description and 10 pictures is not going to sell a $50,000 car...any car, let alone a Model A Coupe.

For 50 large they should hire a photographer.

[oldsman41]

Not worth that kind of money.

[BillEbob]

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I wouldn't pay half that amount for ANY coupe!

IMHO

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by oldsman41

Not worth that kind of money.

Originally Posted by BillEbob

I wouldn't pay half that amount for ANY coupe!

IMHO

May I ask if either of you two have ever seen this car in person to make such a statement? Armchair appraisers offering unsolicited opinions is a huge detriment to this hobby as a whole.


FWIW, I have judged this vehicle several times beginning at the Dallas World Meet. As stated above, you likely could not 'restore' this car for that money. By that, I mean not just replace parts with crappy repro parts like most restorers do these days but actually return each & every component back to factory specifications for under the eBay price. The buyer for this vehicle will be the discriminating hobbyist that desires owning a quality vehicle that is in the top 10% of the Model-A Coupes out there.


.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I dunno boys, E-Bay has 'Found something similar' check this baby out. And Cadillac powered to boot. Are we comparing apples to the proverbial,,,,, oranges,,,, here


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-Ford-M...94403#viTabs_0

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

A beautiful car, but the best way to find out how the market values the car, is to start with a low opening bid but put the reserve wherever you want it. It will bid to the amount the market values the car.

A one paragraph description and 10 pictures is not going to sell a $50,000 car...any car, let alone a Model A Coupe.

The "appraisal" means little to nothing. Appraisers know who their customer is .

The description says that it is Chicle Drab/Copra Drab. You could have fooled me.

Dick, much of what you are saying above is not 'real world' from my experiences, and I have brokered more than a couple of nice Model-As for more money than this auction price.


To begin with, Jay has passed away and they are trying to liquidate some of his assets. In this scenario, the ONLY thing the eBay format is doing is letting the world know this vehicle is available and for sale. Prospective buyers would not let eBay pictures influence their purchase decision for a vehicle at ½ that price, so it really is mute how nice the pictures are in this eBay listing because any serious buyer is going to jump onto a plane and fly to San Antonio for a first-hand evaluation.


Second, you must realize that many/most discriminating buyers never purchase a vehicle directly thru eBay. That price and money exchange is typically done directly with the Buyer & Seller negotiating face-to-face Therefore, the price would never be "bid up" to market value as you are suggesting. Again, please understand this vehicle is NOT an average Model-A Coupe that you see in the typical marketplace. Therefore value of a vehicle of this caliber is typically determined in/by other methods.


If someone asked me how to determine the value of this particular vehicle, I would begin by asking why they are seeking this particular vehicle. To most discriminating buyers, it is not about it being a rare vehicle or bodystyle, but more about some personal sentiment or attachment with the Buyer. Maybe a family member had a Coupe exactly like this one (-including the color) sometime in the past and they want to relive that memory by owning such an example.


The next thing I have noticed is there are some collectors who have very nice upscale (i.e.: expensive) car collections who also have some type of attachment to a Model-A, ...however these collectors are not interested in owning a 'run of the mill' amateur restoration on a vehicle loaded with reproduction parts just because it would be cheaper to purchase. They want the best, ...no matter if it is art in their home, their clothes, their daily driver automobiles, or other assets. The buyer of this vehicle will be such a person.


The next thing that establishes a value to the buyer is, -does this vehicle meet his desires or does he need to have one restored to his level of expectation to meet his goals? In many cases, it will cost more and will take 2-3 years to have a vehicle restored professionally, so for someone who wants a car of this caliber, this is likely the one for them. Also factoring in, is when was the last time you saw a Model-A Coupe of this restoration caliber for sale on the open market?? Better yet, show me one available today that is equal in quality to this Coupe. Realistically, I doubt you can give an example of one, so 'supply & demand' factor in to establishing a value too.




Finally, as far as fooling you with Copra & Chicle, this vehicle is accurate & authentic regarding the colors. The only detriment that I have with this particular vehicle is the paint is in BC/CC and not single-stage however MARC/MAFCA judges have used this vehicle's paint formula as the benchmark for others to compare to. Even I recently obtained the formula that was used on this Coupe from Jay's painter, and then obtained the formula from MARC Judge and paint guru Jim Brand, --and both paints were dead-on in color and hue comparing to each other. Additionally, I think this formula was the research results from the Ehrenhofer boys in their quest to replicate Copra & Chicle, so I can unequivocally say that it is correct.




.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Brent,


Being newer to the hobby, have often wondered why someone would pay that amount of money for an A. Seen them online, see a few sell on Mecum and other shows on cable - some sell for low money, an occasional one sells for prices like what is being asked for on this one on Ebay. Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy detailed response - very educational. Hopefully the family will get a good price, we will probably will never know what the purchase price is, most likely will be a private sale.

[slammin]

Of course the auction closed without a bid. For this quality car eBay is not the venue to use. However it does give you worldwide exposure. Post # 3 has the right idea, start lower maybe 10K with a reserve and see where it goes. Hemmings would be a much better site. While most individuals shopping for a Model A want to pay 10 cents on the dollar, I know there are those willing to pay the price for this coupe, you just have to find them, if you can afford the time it will take.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Brent,
I'm just a hobbiest, but I have built over 30 cars...both hot rods and stockers. I've sold all my cars through eBay or BaT. The part of the hobby I enjoy most is building the cars. I'm not a rich guy and I don't have tons of storage space, so I need to sell them soon after I finish them in order for the hobby to continue for me. I'm skilled enough (but hardly a pro) that I have always broken even on my cars and usually make a profit (excluding my labor of course). Two of my cars have been invited to the Grand National Roadster Show in Pomona, another went to a museum in Winnipeg. Here's a sampling...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/996911...57650980254655

I certainly believe you when you say this coupe is a very special car...but I can't tell that from the pictures and text. If I was in the market, but if I didn't know the car like you do, I doubt if I would follow up on this one. Nothing is really said or pictured that would justify the price.

I agree that eBay can give a car some excellent exposure that results in an after auction sale. This has happened to me several times. But my experience is that you have to do a far better job of showing off the car both in words and pictures than was done here in order to get those follow up calls.

Again, I'd start the car at $1,000 with a high reserve. I'd provide at least 20 pictures and a link to many more. I'd give a full description of the car, its history, the story of the restoration, the awards it has won, etc. When the auction ends, and the reserve isn't met, a potential buyer that has never seen or heard of this car would have enough information to follow up. I would also know post auction how the market values the car.

I also agree with you that if this car is to actually sell anywhere near $50k, that it would go to a rich guy that absolutely needed a 30 Coupe in this condition, with this color, and equipment. Finding those few people that qualify (or that one person) will not be easy. This eBay ad won't help any.

Here's an example of one of my eBay listings. A pretty unique car with a limited buyer pool. This car did not sell during the eBay auction but sold post auction to the high bidder for more than his final bid amount and about the same money as the 30 Coupe...

http://studeute.steinkamp.us/the-kar...r-is-for-sale/

Here's one of my BaT auctions. Another unique car and it sold during the auction...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-daimler-v8-250/

If you say this car is Copra/Chicle, then it is. This is how it shows in the eBay listing, however...



I don't know if it is the lighting, the camera, or what, but this isn't Copra/Chicle.

Based on your knowledge of this car, I'm sure it is beautiful. I hope it sells for what the seller feels it is worth. I'm only saying that this eBay listing did not help that process.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by slammin

Of course the auction closed without a bid. For this quality car eBay is not the venue to use. However it does give you worldwide exposure. Post # 3 has the right idea, start lower maybe 10K with a reserve and see where it goes. Hemmings would be a much better site. While most individuals shopping for a Model A want to pay 10 cents on the dollar, I know there are those willing to pay the price for this coupe, you just have to find them, if you can afford the time it will take.

In my opinion, starting at $10k and seeing where it goes is the WORSE thing that can be done with this particular car. Why start at the same place as all the other 'junk' is starting at? Someone who is sincerely interested will make the effort to travel to Texas to inspect this car. Only that person can establish a value of what THAT car is worth to them. If the estate is seeking $60 and someone offers $30k, then the family can take that offer under advisement however IMO that eBay starting price generally will thwart off most wanna-be tire kickers. To the serious buyer, the auction starting price really means nothing.



Dick, let me just say that while your comments above definitely have merit, in my mind this Seller has done a decent job of documenting and validating that car is indeed a winning Fine-point car that has earned a Henry. As such, wouldn't/shouldn't someone assume this makes the vehicle credible enough to warrant a personal inspection if they were indeed serious about wanting to own a vehicle of this caliber? If so, then the eBay auction listing has done what the Seller likely intended it to do. As such, the listing was a success as it was.


Granted, like you mentioned, this car is not for most hobbyists however all it takes is one person (rich or not) that appreciates it for what it is and can consummate a successful sale. When you, I, or others here begin to give our unsolicited opinions in a public forum, ...no one really wins, and IMHO it is not good for the hobby. While I agree that the picture posted does not depict the true hue of Copra & Chicle, I believe you were fooled. Again, most serious buyers would understand this about computer images and would likely choose to view the car in person. If the Buyer had any concerns about the authenticity of the paint at that point, --or any other area, surely you would agree that would be between the Seller and Buyer.


I realize that no one here likely meant any harm to the seller, however maybe it was good to put it all on the table so that someone did not use some of the comments as gospel for them making their decisions either on this or another similar vehicle. All is good!!


.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Thanks, Brent.

It takes a lot of work and talent to sell a car...and even more to get top dollar for a car. I believe the eBay listing didn't help any and may have turned off some potential buyers. I think the sellers would be far better off by contracting with a professional broker like yourself. Your record of selling high dollar Model As is what is needed in this situation.

Again, I'm sure it is a beautiful car and I hope the sellers get a price they are happy with.

[dean from bozeman]

Dick, you are an artist. Really enjoyed looking at your cars. Thanks for the links.

Agree with the points that you and Brent are making.

My take is that the family may have thought that only people active in the hobby would be interested in the car. Those folks would most probably know what winning "a Henry" means.

15 to 20 photos can give you a real good idea of what the car is about. Some of these dealerships, however, have 50 photos and many of them are similar.

Good to get these pointers because soon I will be putting a Leatherback and an "Odd Duck" up for sale.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by dean from bozeman

Dick, you are an artist. Really enjoyed looking at your cars. Thanks for the links.

I second that! Well done. The 'Stude Ute' was pretty clever!!

Someone once told me that E-Bay will come after you if you close a deal outside of their auction listing. How they could is beyond me, I guess they'd 'ban' you from listing again?? Is that just a wive's tale??

[ronn]

wives tale................

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Details would be in the agreement you mark as read when signing up, and when occasionally updated from Ebay. Not sure, I took the time to read it once, I believe that there was some info about this subject.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Details would be in the agreement you mark as read when signing up, and when occasionally updated from Ebay. Not sure, I took the time to read it once, I believe that there was some info about this subject.

From their site in the Policies.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Did not copy correctly, her you go.




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