Swage Or Not To Swage?

[Fred A]

My front drums are new and all the parts are new. The arc of the shoes is right. Since the brakes have not been run, it's starting to worry me about the new drums not being swaged to the lugs. If I were to swage, could they loose concentricity, and need to be turned? One of those haunting afterthoughts... Thanks: Fred A

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Fred A

My front drums are new and all the parts are new. The arc of the shoes is right. Since the brakes have not been run, it's starting to worry me about the new drums not being swaged to the lugs. If I were to swage, could they loose concentricity, and need to be turned? One of those haunting afterthoughts... Thanks: Fred A

Fred, I did this recently with 40 type hubs and I'll try to post the part # of the studs I used.
It was a lot of trial and error finding the right ones. I also got them all from Rock Auto. Best prices around on parts like this.

I used Dorman studs that have a serrated shoulder. I had to ream out the holes in the hub ever so slightly, but then the studs are pulled through the hub with a nut. The serrations bite into the hub, locking them in place.

Worked great and still 100% centric. No issues.

The problem with swageding them is it takes the right way of supporting the assembly and a 50 ton press. Not many places doing it anymore.

[rich b]

Probably would break those new cast iron drums if you would try to swage the studs; if you could even find any that would match the added thickness of the center on the new drum.

[Bored&Stroked]

Are you talking about swaging the drums to the studs . . . or the studs to the hub? I believe you're talking about the drums to the stubs???

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Are you talking about swaging the drums to the studs . . . or the studs to the hub? I believe you're talking about the drums to the stubs???

Good point, Dale. Depending on the year, either the hub or drum was swedged.


'40 style brakes, the OEM studs had a non-serrated shoulder which sat perfectly in the hole in the hub and stepped down slightly when coming through the drum. The swedge filled that void and, by the nature of high pressure, filled and wedged the stud into the slightly larger holes in the drum.

On '42-later, that uses the hub on the outside, it was reversed. The swedging was done on the hub.

[Fred A]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have new inside hubs with the studs swaged to that hub. I'm concerned with the unsecured drums. Optionally, must I do anything different? Thanks for the advice. Fred A

[tubman]

That's the way all other cars with similar brake setups do it. The only thing securing the drums are a couple of flimsy "speed nuts" (which usually disappear after the first brake job). What's so different about the earlier brakes? The lug nuts exert enough clamping force to hold the wheel on, why not a brake drum sandwiched between the hub and wheel?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

That's the way all other cars with similar brake setups do it. What's so different about the earlier brakes? The lug nuts exert enough clamping force to hold the wheel on, why not a brake drum sandwiched between the hub and wheel?

I've got to agree with "tubman" ....back in MY early days, besides these old Fords, I 'came-up' messing with '55-'57 Chevys and EARLY, drum-brake Corvettes. Those drums slid-off in your hands once you un-bolted a wheel. And those brakes all worked far better than Ford's Lockheed brakes, too! Coop

.

[Tim Ayers]

I do think the only difference is, once the swedge is removed from a '40 style drum, the hole is oversized if one is using Ford OEM studs. It could cause an out of round condition I'd assume. You'd have to tack weld the stud to the drum, otherwise when you take the lug nut off, there is nothing keeping it in place.

The new, knurled oversized studs solve that issue.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I do think the only difference is, once the swedge is removed from a '40 style drum, the hole is oversized if one is using Ford OEM studs.

The new, knurled oversized studs solve that issue.

Tim ....Did you end-up reaming hub holes to the suggested 0.600", and using the Dorman 610-234 studs? Coop

.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Tim ....Did you end-up reaming hub holes to the suggested 0.600", and using the Dorman 610-234 studs? Coop

.

Coop,

That number rings a bell. I have it written down at home and will double check. Yes, I reamed to .600 and "pulled" them through. Worked out really well.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Coop,

That number rings a bell. I have it written down at home and will double check. Yes, I reamed to .600 and "pulled" them through. Worked out really well.

Those are the studs that Boling Bros. recommend using, along with their printed procedure in quotes, BELOW. Coop


"These can also be used with original 1940-1941 Ford front and rear hubs by removing the original drum and studs, reaming the stud holes to .600, and installing Dorman 610-234 studs."





.

[little howard]

The one additional thing that I would recommend to add to the process, is, after you've had the drums turned and shoes arced to fit, you take the drums and have them balanced.
Went through this with my 5-window. New, F-100 frt brakes and drums and new r. brakes and drums, '40 Ford. Still had quite a bit of un-balance and blamed the tires. Went through the whole wheel and tire balance, out of round, road force balance, etc. etc.
A friend suggested I have the drums balanced. I was skeptical, but did it. Took them to a roundy-round race car machine shop and had them balanced.
It was incredibal how much they had to take off to get them to balance.
Took them home, put them on, and WOW! problem solved. (Just remember to mark the drums to which wheel they go to, so you won't mess up having had your shoes arced to fit a certain drum.)

[Fred A]

"one additional thing" is a welcome point. That little howard is welcomed into the mix on this site, is a good sign that Ford Barn is truly open to great ideas and experiences.
To clarify, the front hubs came to me with the lugs already swaged, but the drums not attached. Film at Eleven! Fred A
P.S. I still disadvantaged by not being "unskilled" at picture posting.

Fred A

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by little howard

The one additional thing that I would recommend to add to the process, is, after you've had the drums turned and shoes arced to fit, you take the drums and have them balanced.

little howard ....These drums that you had balanced...WHERE did you purchase them? Did they possibly come from "SPEEDWAY Motors"? Coop

.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Fred A

"one additional thing" is a welcome point. That little howard is welcomed into the mix on this site, is a good sign that Ford Barn is truly open to great ideas and experiences.
To clarify, the front hubs came to me with the lugs already swaged, but the drums not attached. Film at Eleven! Fred A
P.S. I still disadvantaged by not being "unskilled" at picture posting.

Fred A

Fred:

Do you have OEM drums or ones like Boling Bros. sell?

[little howard]

The fronts are "late model" replacements, bought over the counter from my local Car Quest.
The rears were the "USA" made, top Quality, out of V8 Parts catalog.
I buy very few critical parts from Speedway.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by little howard

The fronts are "late model" replacements, bought over the counter from my local Car Quest.
The rears were the "USA" made, top Quality, out of V8 Parts catalog.
I buy very few critical parts from Speedway.

You are hereby promoted to "Big Howard".

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by little howard

The fronts are "late model" replacements, bought over the counter from my local Car Quest.
The rears were the "USA" made, top Quality, out of V8 Parts catalog.
I buy very few critical parts from Speedway.

Howard ....Let's try this from a different direction (I HAVE REALLY GOOD REASON FOR PERSUING THIS!). Can you tell us which style drum that you had to have balanced (See BELOW)? Coop




"SPEEDWAY" Drums...NO EMBOSSED Writing Around Perimeter







"BOLING BROS." Drums....EMBOSSED WORDS/LETTERS Around Perimeter






.

[little howard]

They were NOT the Boling Bros. drums.
And, I really don't want to say where I got them. I do by stuff from them.