The Ford Barn

Bassman/NZ · 11-20-2015, 01:32 AM

Does high compression (155lbs) require a step hotter plug, or should a standard plug do the job? How about the distributor advance plate setting? More advance or less advance? This is a stock C59A with milled heads.

flatheadmurre · 11-20-2015, 01:45 AM

Why a hotter plug ?
If youre running the engine harder a colder one maybe ?

Bassman/NZ · 11-20-2015, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Why a hotter plug ?
If youre running the engine harder a colder one maybe ?

I dont know..... that's why I'm asking.

flatheadmurre · 11-20-2015, 02:39 AM

Start with the standard ones and check how they act then.
Depending on if you run it hard and get issues with selfignition you might need colder ones.
You can swap in colder plugs untill you get issues with fouling or hotter until you get selfignition.
Somewhere in betweeen is where you want to be !

scooder · 11-20-2015, 02:57 AM

High compression you want less total advance.
Martin.

JWL · 11-20-2015, 06:47 AM

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Generally good advice posted above. 155 lbs. is not really "high" cranking compression. One of my Flathead cars has 170 lbs. and uses stock(H-10 equivalent) spark plugs without a problem. I am aware of others with even higher cranking compression using stock heat range plugs. Iron heads and NASCAR-type driving might call for a colder plug.

Yes, higher compression ratios usually need slightly less spark advance than lower ratios. This is especially true at high speeds.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 11-20-2015, 07:48 AM

My 40 coupe has 160# cranking compression, I built that engine 40yr's ago, got over 100G on it. I had a lot of pinging problem, running crab dist, I kept welding up the advance slot weights to about 17-18* total, played with vacuum retard, screwed down about half way. Run the cheap gas, no ping, will scream to 5000 like nothing. Walt

BUBBAS IGNITION · 11-20-2015, 09:32 AM

My thinking is that the engine will never need more than factory advance max degrees.
It may need to come in sooner or later but never above max.
The basic configuration of the engine never changes , ie: same valve type, and engine design.
Do anything ya want but its still a flathead...

Heres an extreme flathead from Ken Makuch

https://www.facebook.com/ken.makuch....type=2&theater

180 mph with no blower!!! Twin 4 barrells 780 cfm each......

flatjack9 · 11-20-2015, 10:27 AM

That's one nasty sounding flathead.

Tim Ayers · 11-20-2015, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

That's one nasty sounding flathead.

Agreed. Man, that was bad a**!

Walt,

I noticed you said your motor has 100K miles on it? Man, that's awesome that it is still so healthy. Is the same motor that you run the 4X2 intake on?

Pete · 11-20-2015, 03:54 PM

The curly pipes must quiet it down a lot.
For making that much hp, it sure isn't very noisy.
Even as it is, those guys are going to have ringing ears without ear muffs.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 11-20-2015, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Agreed. Man, that was bad a**!

Walt,

I noticed you said your motor has 100K miles on it? Man, that's awesome that it is still so healthy. Is the same motor that you run the 4X2 intake on?

Tim, it's the same engine with the 4 97's, I've had everything on top from 2 carbs-3carbs- 4bbl, McCa Super charger, I did break a second ring land on one piston at about 50G, I couldn't get one 1/8 piston so I bought a new set, the new set was .002 bigger so I just hone .002 and had a new engine again, It has the same main bearings for 40 years, I did put a new set of rod bearing in with the pistons. I've done a lot of long trips, T5 trans and 9in. rear with 3:50 gears, 60mph 2000rpm, that's probably saved the engine on long trips. Walt

hotcoupe · 11-20-2015, 05:32 PM

what are you guys doing to get such high compression numbers? please be specific, if you would.
thanx,
tom

tubman · 11-20-2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

what are you guys doing to get such high compression numbers? please be specific, if you would.
thanx,
tom

I'd like to know, too!

Bassman/NZ · 11-20-2015, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

what are you guys doing to get such high compression numbers? please be specific, if you would.
thanx,
tom

Valve grind, new rings and 50thou milled off the heads, giving me 50thou over the pistons.

Walt Dupont--Me. · 11-20-2015, 07:28 PM

276ci, 3-5/16x4, not relieved, 40thou piston clearance, this is in my 40. I have 2 of these engines, I have a 3rd, in my dragster, 286ci, less comp ratio, big reliefe , 2.600 intake valves, Potvin 425 cam, this engine is a screamer. I have one 276 on my test stand for sale, I,ll post it on the sell section. Walt

scooder · 11-20-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

My thinking is that the engine will never need more than factory advance max degrees.
It may need to come in sooner or later but never above max.
The basic configuration of the engine never changes , ie: same valve type, and engine design.
Do anything ya want but its still a flathead...

Heres an extreme flathead from Ken Makuch

https://www.facebook.com/ken.makuch....type=2&theater

180 mph with no blower!!! Twin 4 barrells 780 cfm each......

How much horse power is that thing making? Sounds quite fit.
Martin.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 11-20-2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooder

How much horse power is that thing making? Sounds quite fit.
Martin.

I thinks its 300 horse power , first time i have ever heard about 300 HP with out a blower. Theres a couple threads on the hamb board about Ken and this engine . They have done a ton of camshaft work etc...

scooder · 11-20-2015, 08:11 PM

Cool, thanks for the info. I'll have a sniff around the HAMB.
Martin.

Ol' Ron · 11-20-2015, 08:48 PM

Although some may disagree, I don't believe 200 HP is obtainable with out extensive block modification. Going back ti the 50's when guys like Bob Francisco and Ray Brock built an dynoed an engine in Hot Rod nag they couldn't get over 200 hp with out Nitro. In a week or two a 294 with Eaton blower will be on the dyno in CT. looking forward to the results.
As for max advance in a flathead: this is a trick question. Max advance depends on the combustion chamber configuration at WOT and Cruise load. I and others have found that between 18 and 20 is max at WOT and even a slight retard at hi revs. In cruise is another problem, Here the AF and cylinder turbulence and spark plug location will determine the amount of advance is needed.
Yes this can be averaged out for a so-so advance curve that works OK, because the factory tuning methods of the 40' through 80's did it that way. Today we hav engine management systems that can improve on them and have a cleaner running to boot. We just have to have an open mind, and it's not just "good enough" We can make it better, we just have to thimk???

11-20-2015, 01:32 AM	#1
Bassman/NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napier, New Zealand Posts: 2,001	High compression question. Does high compression (155lbs) require a step hotter plug, or should a standard plug do the job? How about the distributor advance plate setting? More advance or less advance? This is a stock C59A with milled heads.

11-20-2015, 01:45 AM	#2
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: High compression question. Why a hotter plug ? If youre running the engine harder a colder one maybe ?

11-20-2015, 02:39 AM	#4
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: High compression question. Start with the standard ones and check how they act then. Depending on if you run it hard and get issues with selfignition you might need colder ones. You can swap in colder plugs untill you get issues with fouling or hotter until you get selfignition. Somewhere in betweeen is where you want to be !

11-20-2015, 02:57 AM	#5
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: High compression question. High compression you want less total advance. Martin.

11-20-2015, 06:47 AM	#6
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: High compression question. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Generally good advice posted above. 155 lbs. is not really "high" cranking compression. One of my Flathead cars has 170 lbs. and uses stock(H-10 equivalent) spark plugs without a problem. I am aware of others with even higher cranking compression using stock heat range plugs. Iron heads and NASCAR-type driving might call for a colder plug. Yes, higher compression ratios usually need slightly less spark advance than lower ratios. This is especially true at high speeds.

11-20-2015, 07:48 AM	#7
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: High compression question. My 40 coupe has 160# cranking compression, I built that engine 40yr's ago, got over 100G on it. I had a lot of pinging problem, running crab dist, I kept welding up the advance slot weights to about 17-18* total, played with vacuum retard, screwed down about half way. Run the cheap gas, no ping, will scream to 5000 like nothing. Walt

11-20-2015, 09:32 AM	#8
BUBBAS IGNITION Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA Posts: 4,148	Re: High compression question. My thinking is that the engine will never need more than factory advance max degrees. It may need to come in sooner or later but never above max. The basic configuration of the engine never changes , ie: same valve type, and engine design. Do anything ya want but its still a flathead... Heres an extreme flathead from Ken Makuch https://www.facebook.com/ken.makuch....type=2&theater 180 mph with no blower!!! Twin 4 barrells 780 cfm each...... __________________ If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!! www.bubbasignition.com [email protected]

11-20-2015, 10:27 AM	#9
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: High compression question. That's one nasty sounding flathead.

11-20-2015, 03:54 PM	#11
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: High compression question. The curly pipes must quiet it down a lot. For making that much hp, it sure isn't very noisy. Even as it is, those guys are going to have ringing ears without ear muffs.

11-20-2015, 05:32 PM	#13
hotcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: imperial,mo Posts: 694	Re: High compression question. what are you guys doing to get such high compression numbers? please be specific, if you would. thanx, tom

11-20-2015, 07:28 PM	#16
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: High compression question. 276ci, 3-5/16x4, not relieved, 40thou piston clearance, this is in my 40. I have 2 of these engines, I have a 3rd, in my dragster, 286ci, less comp ratio, big reliefe , 2.600 intake valves, Potvin 425 cam, this engine is a screamer. I have one 276 on my test stand for sale, I,ll post it on the sell section. Walt

11-20-2015, 08:11 PM	#19
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: High compression question. Cool, thanks for the info. I'll have a sniff around the HAMB. Martin.

11-20-2015, 08:48 PM	#20
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: High compression question. Although some may disagree, I don't believe 200 HP is obtainable with out extensive block modification. Going back ti the 50's when guys like Bob Francisco and Ray Brock built an dynoed an engine in Hot Rod nag they couldn't get over 200 hp with out Nitro. In a week or two a 294 with Eaton blower will be on the dyno in CT. looking forward to the results. As for max advance in a flathead: this is a trick question. Max advance depends on the combustion chamber configuration at WOT and Cruise load. I and others have found that between 18 and 20 is max at WOT and even a slight retard at hi revs. In cruise is another problem, Here the AF and cylinder turbulence and spark plug location will determine the amount of advance is needed. Yes this can be averaged out for a so-so advance curve that works OK, because the factory tuning methods of the 40' through 80's did it that way. Today we hav engine management systems that can improve on them and have a cleaner running to boot. We just have to have an open mind, and it's not just "good enough" We can make it better, we just have to thimk???