Consensus of opinion

[vern hodgson]

Original rebuilt generator or alternator, pros/ cons??!

[alexiskai]

A generator can be fussy, can require fine-tuning as your electrical use patterns change. If they're not set up right, they can be hard on the battery and electrical components. Whereas an alternator is usually plug-and-play. However, if the rest of the engine bay is stock-looking, an alternator looks out of place, IMO, unless you get one of the very expensive ones that's built to look like a generator.

The best of both worlds is a rebuilt generator with an EVR. Unfortunately, no one is making EVRs right this minute.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

What's an EVR?

[Stinch]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

What's an EVR?

electronic voltage regulator

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Vern, everything is relative. A stock Model-A generator is really not that difficult to maintain. The reason that Model-A generators fell from use and alternators stepped in for use was due to poor parts availability in the late 70's. No one was making good armatures nor field coils, and the small incidental parts required scrounging at swap meets. That is why the alternator began to be popular. Almost every parts store had one in stock. At that point, I can remember that it was Monkey See, -Monkey Do.

Fast forward to today when a new armature (-actually better quality than original) is available today, new field coils with better wrapping, and all of the small internal parts are available. Even the Cut-out that is available today has a diode that makes it non-problematic. So there really is not any reason that an original generator cannot be restored and used for 50,000+ miles with very little maintenance. The difficulty of fine-tuning is really not that much either but just requires a little effort for about 15 minutes. Most people do not understand how the process works. Batteries today are of better construction, and battery tenders are the norm for most hobbyists that do not use their Model-A frequently (i.e.: several times a week). If starting a Model-A depletes 10% of the battery's reserve, a generator may take 15 minutes to replenish that whereas an alternator takes 5 minutes. If you take a 15 minute ride, what does it matter if it take 5 minutes or 15 minutes? We get so caught-up in our mindset that an alternator is needed. So if the ride only takes 10 minutes, no big deal as the battery only gets returned to 95%. Maybe the trip home takes 20 minutes and the battery gets fully re-charged. Lets suppose you have a battery tender at home. If the charging system in under-charging for the entire day, the tender will replenish it and you are ready for the following trip whenever that will be.

Others also get too hung-up on this deal about needing an EVR to regulate the charging. The Model-A came with a voltage regulator. It is called a Light Switch. If the charging plan is to replenish in 15 minutes but you have a 30 minute trip ahead, just wait the 15 minutes and then turn on the headlights to use some of the extra charging rate the generator is producing. Turn them on and drive for a bit and then switch them off. Doing this, adjusting the Carburetor's GAV, adjusting the Spark Lever, shifting Transmission Gears, depressing the Clutch Pedal, etc., etc. is all what takes the boredom out of driving a Model-A. If you don't feel like doing those things, then go drive a modern car to your destination!

[nkaminar]

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Back in the day I used a stock generator but wired in a mechanical voltage regulator to control the field windings rather than the 3rd brush. The voltage regulator was hidden. The only clue was the extra wire leading to the generator. The mechanical regulators can still be found, mostly for old Ford trucks and tractors. I have not tried an electronic voltage regulator. I have an alternator on my current Model A.

[Bob Bidonde]

The alternator, in comparison to a generator, is the performance winner:
>Higher current output to charge the battery very much quicker;
>Superior solid state regulation in lieu of the Cutout, and does not require output adjustment for nighttime driving;

>Enables use of brighter modern lighting;
>Choice of operating voltage, 6V or 12V;
>Relatively maintenance free;

>Available in most auto parts stores & rebuilding shops are common place.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

The Model-A came with a voltage regulator. It is called a Light Switch. If the charging plan is to replenish in 15 minutes but you have a 30 minute trip ahead, just wait the 15 minutes and then turn on the headlights to use some of the extra charging rate the generator is producing. Turn them on and drive for a bit and then switch them off. Doing this, adjusting the Carburetor's GAV, adjusting the Spark Lever, shifting Transmission Gears, depressing the Clutch Pedal, etc., etc. is all what takes the boredom out of driving a Model-A. If you don't feel like doing those things, then go drive a modern car to your destination!

This is some impressive gatekeeping right here. Who has a "charging plan?" Those who don't care to formulate and execute a "charging plan" should go buy a Toyota?

[Kurt in NJ]

For me a generator is more reliable and cheaper to repair/replace I have the charge rate set at 14 amps ---first generator I rebuilt am still doing high output testing after temporary repair in 1972 --learned that fuse at starter causes generator and bulb problems was told that resoldering wires to commutator would be only a temporary fix ---got rid of fuse.
I drive a lot at night have halogen bulbs , no battery tender ,long battery life, use headlights during daytime to limit charge rate and expect it to stare even if it has been over 3 months.
I have had the delco alternator out of the truck 3 times in 40 years(74 chevy van) it's worn out 3 belts in that time --the stock A belt is still working at 50
It costs me more than twice as much to rebuild a alternator---i can buy a generator for 5$ or less that I can go through clean and re lubricate and have one that works for many years.

[Big hammer]

I have both ! Generator with a Tom Wessenberg EVR is on the car, an alternator in storage for a back up. The alternator doesn't look right installed on the A's, I haven't needed the output of the alternator yet, when I put in a stereo with 200 amp booster, heated seats, a/c, window deicers, then I'll need the alternator!

[w.michael]

I have both. I prefer the generator (fully professionally rebuilt) with a diode cutout. I have an EVR that I have never installed. Charge rate is set low at 2 to 3 amps. I have a good battery installed. This works very well for occasional night time driving with conventional 50/32 bulbs. I suppose if I were going to take an extended overnight trip I might adjust the charge rate, but for 2 or 3 hours of night driving, I’ve never adjusted it. 6 volt positive ground. The only accessories I have are a cell phone charger and GPS.

Now, the alternator on my other car (equipped the same) works well, too—but I haven’t found any advantage over the generator, and it is ugly.

I recently acquired a car with my first Powerhouse generator, and so far it performs very well, but I don’t have enough experience with it yet to opine.

W. Michael

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

For me a generator is more reliable and cheaper to repair/replace I have the charge rate set at 14 amps ---first generator I rebuilt am still doing high output testing after temporary repair in 1972 --learned that fuse at starter causes generator and bulb problems was told that resoldering wires to commutator would be only a temporary fix ---got rid of fuse.
I drive a lot at night have halogen bulbs , no battery tender ,long battery life, use headlights during daytime to limit charge rate and expect it to stare even if it has been over 3 months.
I have had the delco alternator out of the truck 3 times in 40 years(74 chevy van) it's worn out 3 belts in that time --the stock A belt is still working at 50
It costs me more than twice as much to rebuild a alternator---i can buy a generator for 5$ or less that I can go through clean and re lubricate and have one that works for many years.

Kurt, just curious. How many miles do you put on your Model A compared to your van? I have a similar experience, but I will anmit I put a lot more miles on my van than I do my Model A.

[vern hodgson]

Thanks every one for the in depth replies, I now know more than before, I also prefer to remain as stock as possible, just because. Guess I will look for a good generator, have one I was going to use, but pulley hub and shaft were rusted so bad that after removing the pulley it will no longer sit snugly on the armature shaft. The bolt (I assume it must be a bolt) actually broke off when I tried to remove it. I will most likely buy a new rebuilt one. Great replies, thanks again

[Patrick L.]

Generator with preferably an EVR. [ and 6v or 12v makes no difference]

An alternator on an 'A' just ain't right. JMHO.

[Mulletwagon]

My 31 Tudor has a 12v alternator negative ground system and I like it. Quick starts and easy to get a jump if necessary. Other mods include seat belts, electronic ignition, and turn signals. Unless Pebble Beach is a consideration, these mods would be considered by most to be practical without crossing the originality rubicon. In the final analysis, it is really up to you.

[Big hammer]

50 years ago my pos was a daily driver, it had a delco generator 8 volt battery and wouldn't start because the battery was to weak! So one day a guy needed a ride home and it wouldn't start, he got a couple of guys to push start me. I set up everything and the guys pushed, I had it second gear and it was running with in an arms length. The guys said we tought we would have to push it for blocks! Many times I would push it myself jump in put it in second gear pop the clutch, fun times when your a teenager! No hand cranking, Dad said if he caught me if it didn't break my arm he would.

Buy the way you can jump start 6 volt battery with 12 volts just don't have any lights on, and those 12volt jumper boxes just connect and let all of the electrons flow from the box before trying to start..... don't for get to recharge the box before you need it again !!!

[old ugly]

Originally Posted by w.michael

I have both. I prefer the generator (fully professionally rebuilt) with a diode cutout. I have an EVR that I have never installed. Charge rate is set low at 2 to 3 amps. I have a good battery installed. This works very well for occasional night time driving with conventional 50/32 bulbs. I suppose if I were going to take an extended overnight trip I might adjust the charge rate, but for 2 or 3 hours of night driving, I’ve never adjusted it. 6 volt positive ground. The only accessories I have are a cell phone charger and GPS.

Now, the alternator on my other car (equipped the same) works well, too—but I haven’t found any advantage over the generator, and it is ugly.

I recently acquired a car with my first Powerhouse generator, and so far it performs very well, but I don’t have enough experience with it yet to opine.

W. Michael

W.Micheal, what do you use for a cell phone charger on the 6v positive ground system?
where can i buy one?

ou

[mhsprecher]

I have alternators on both of my A's. I went with a Powergen for my 1930 because I hate the way the modern alternators look on a Model A. Expensive, but it's been a great unit. I have halogen headlights, which is one reason I switched. I just recently installed an old Model A generator converted to an alternator on my 28, so it looks exactly original. I couldn't adjust the generator on the 28. I bought the converted generator a year or so ago, but finally installed it as I had planned to take a long trip and wanted the assurance that I would have the juice I needed.

[KGBnut]

My question anytime someone wants to "upgrade" something on a Model A is 'what are you trying to accomplish.' If the car is otherwise well maintained, has a good battery and clean connections, the original generator does what is needed (and maintains the originality).

IF you do a lot of night driving and have installed some sort of high output lights; have installed a stereo; run a CB radio...etc... These things can require more and cleaner output than the generator will provide.

It is your car, and I don't believe there is any shame in putting in an alternator, but my car is a snapshot in history...a conversation piece... I enjoy it BECAUSE it is antiquated, so I like to keep it as original as practical. I do have some modernization, but I try to stick to things that don't show.

Ken

[Kurt in NJ]

I do a lot of night driving and have higher wattage halogen bulbs, cranks fast , lights are bright, have been accused of having 12volts, and other modifications
I would like to know how many amps alternator equipped cars can sustain, the people selling them refuse to prove their claims.

[1931 flamingo]

My 31 Tudor had an alternator when I bought it. It was painted black and did NOT stick out in the engine compartment. FWIW
Paul in CT

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

My 31 Tudor had an alternator when I bought it. It was painted black and did NOT stick out in the engine compartment. FWIW
Paul in CT

The black paint would help.

[Ivan in southeast va.]

Mick Jagger said, "Paint It Black".

[dansluck]

Alternators are more dependable. volt positive ground works great..

Good Luck on your choice.

[dansluck]

6 volt

[Charlie Stephens]

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When I see an alternator on a Model A it is a total turn off. I would go the EVR or adapt a later generator.

Charlie Stephens

[w.michael]

My regular cell phone charger and GPS charger work just fine on 6 volts. (They only draw about 4 1/2 or 5 volts anyway. Look at your charger and see what it says in the side.) I installed a cigarette lighter style socket on each car. You do have to reverse the polarity on the socket.

W. Michael

[nkaminar]

Usually the only thing that goes wrong with an alternator is that brushes wear out. They can easily and cheaply be replaced.

I took my 1971 Datson to the dealer to have the alternator repaired. The only thing wrong was that the brushes needed replacing. They put in a new alternator. After that I always did the work myself.

[ronn]

souped up generator- always repulsed at looking at alternators in model As......

just look so wrong.

[burner31]

generator

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Usually the only thing that goes wrong with an alternator is that brushes wear out. They can easily and cheaply be replaced.

IDK, I've seen my share of rectifiers go out.

[Patrick L.]

Generators are simpler and usually more dependable than an alternator.

I've repaired both for 6 decades. Its usually easier to fix the generator.

Generators on old cars as what they came with and alternators on newer cars as what they came with.

If someone needs more output for some reason, then install an alternator [ just paint it black]. But I've not really seen anything that a generator can't run. The old 3 brush generators will put out 14-15 amps and easily 14 volts.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

The alternator, in comparison to a generator, is the performance winner:
>Higher current output to charge the battery very much quicker;
>Superior solid state regulation in lieu of the Cutout, and does not require output adjustment for nighttime driving;

>Enables use of brighter modern lighting;
>Choice of operating voltage, 6V or 12V;
>Relatively maintenance free;

>Available in most auto parts stores & rebuilding shops are common place.

Unfortunately, that is not the case around here. New Delco 10SI units are being manufactured by DB Electric in China however no big-box parts stores carry them in-stock, ...especially ones with a 6v Positive ground. The special internal regulator (-which is generally what fails) is difficult for most rebuild shops to source. The pulley is difficult to source outside of a Model-A arts vendor. At one time, they were probably a great alternative however they are just as troublesome as a stock generator from my perspective.

Something else to consider is most rebuilders have scrapped their 10SI cores because they were worth more as scrap (i.e.: copper) than as a core.

[vern hodgson]

Well, lots to consider, had an alternator on and the readings bounced all over the scale. So my lil bro ( electrical engineer) says it is no good. Hence the query, once I began looking at the prices and recovered my breath, the question for that amt, of money where do I spend it. Alt. Does look ugly on the car, but is a generator ok? So as I was digging thru my stuff looking for a pulley lo and behold I find four generators, two of which on test seem to charge. If either of the two functions on the car, problem solved one had a tag reading “tested oct 91 good output” so I will try that one, might save couple hundred dollars, plus postage.

[ronn]

and sell the spares and go out for a steak dinner.......

[jrelliott]

Generator. If your battery is down and will not start, you can push or hand crank. With an alternator have to push very fast to get it to charge.

[antiquepa]

Installed a Powermaster Alt. on my 30, 31 model 'A's and 39 chevy..Looks like a Generator, but brighter lights and the horn blows with the lights on. More expensive then a generator but well worth the cost. Love mine!! I Agree with post 18.

[Harpkatt]

If your ashamed at your alternator don't open that side! I have a friend that runs 12v alternator. I have a generator because I like the originality antiquity as others have said. Neither really effect driving it. I did opt for 6V LED headlights for night driving. They're ok they don't really look the part which bothered me,but I accepted it since When its dark nobody is really looking at the car while I'm driving it anyway. If you want alternator go alternator if you want generator do that. I'm rarely hurt by what other do to their cars...except chopping up good original cars. That hurts.

[vern hodgson]

That’s a good point

[vern hodgson]

Originally Posted by jrelliott

Generator. If your battery is down and will not start, you can push or hand crank. With an alternator have to push very fast to get it to charge.

Good point

[Ian in Mississauga]

The p.o. of my car installed a generator from a late model flat head. The voltage regulator is mounted on the firewall. I’ve had over 40 years of trouble free driving. I have never seen this set up on another car but I would certainly recommend it. Yes it’s incorrect, but I have all the benefits of the generator and the alternator.

[Bob-A]

I run a Delco-Remy (935-C) generator on my '31 "A" roadster. It is off of a '35 Chevy truck and is considered a "heavy-duty" genny with air vents molded in the end plates. The aftermarket mounting bracket is from the later 30's-40's. Delco's produce approximately 5 more amps then stock Ford genny's. The fuse holder next to the Delco-Remy cutout is to protect the system from any shorts in the headlights or horn.


Bob-A