The Ford Barn

40cpe · 09-29-2013, 03:21 PM

What leads you to think it is the fuel pump causing the no-start? The carburetor should have fuel in it to start the engine after such a short down-time. I could understand a bad pump or lost prime if it didn't keep the carb bowl full while running.

Steves46 · 09-29-2013, 03:36 PM

Hi Vic. Have you checked the fuel line for any possible pin-hole leaks from the tank to the fuel pump? Do you have a fuel pump with a glass bowl laying around that you could swap-out. At least you could see if the pump is loosing prime. I have a hunch that something isn't right between the the tank and fuel pump. Good luck and hope you are able to isolate the cause. I have heard of fule hoses with built-in check valves but you shouldn't need one for stock set-ups. Steve.

Vic Piano · 09-29-2013, 04:10 PM

Hi Gene & Steve,

Here is what's happening, as far as I can tell. The car will fire and run until the fuel in the carb is spent. That much fuel (in the float bowl) will not keep the car running long enough to prime the fuel pump.

We checked the fuel line both with the car running and shut off. We found no evidence of fuel leakage or air intake.

We checked every visible part of the fuel line (portions of it run through the boxed sections of the frame and are not visible but you can feel with your hand several inches in and there was no sign of dampness). We may run an auxiliary fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump to see if that makes a difference. I don't have a fuel pump with the glass bowl on it that will fit the "early style" mount on the oil fill housing. As I mentioned, once the fuel pump is primed, the engine runs fine, it was breaking up a little under a load in high gear but that symptom could be attributable to fuel delivery or an electrical malady… and we’ve had both with this car…

Oh well, now I’ve got to pull the water pumps and have Skip rebuild them and, I think I’ll pull the starter motor and have it checked out as well as long as the car will be stuck up on the lift…

Vic Piano · 09-30-2013, 10:07 AM

Ok, I'll call this post "What I Did Before Breakfast"

I pulled the water pumps off of the '47 LC and cleaned them up.

The nice thing about the V-12 water pumps is, you don't have to support the engine as the pumps do not serve as the front motor mounts

. Now I'll send thes pumps off to Skip for a rebuild. Next, on my lunch hour , I'll pull the starter motor out... Yes, we are having fun...

Vic Piano · 10-02-2013, 10:55 AM

I ordered an Airtex 6 volt 2 to 4 psi electric fuel pump for the '47 LC, should have it this afternoon.

Before I install it, along with a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 psi) and a "kill" switch, I think I'll run a rubber fuel line from the gas tank up to the stock fuel pump and see if it will pull fuel. If it does, we'll replace the fuel line (that is in the car) with a new one. Can't play with the '47 LC this weekend, got other things to do... Should have the water pumps back from Skip sometime next week so, we'll shoot for next weekend.

Steves46 · 10-02-2013, 11:44 AM

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Hi Vic. I think running the temp rubber fuel line is a great idea for it should at least prove or rule-out the fuel pump as the culprit.

Vic Piano · 10-02-2013, 01:30 PM

Hi Steve, after trying three different (known to be working) fuel pumps and getting the same result, I think it's safe to say that the problem is not directly related to the fuel pump.

The strange thing is, once the fuel pump is primed, the car runs... there was an electric fuel pump in the car at one time however, it had been removed... At any rate, we'll see if the rubber fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump works... That's next weeks adventure...

BillLee/Chandler, TX · 10-03-2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

Hi Steve, after trying three different (known to be working) fuel pumps and getting the same result, I think it's safe to say that the problem is not directly related to the fuel pump.

The strange thing is, once the fuel pump is primed, the car runs... there was an electric fuel pump in the car at one time however, it had been removed... At any rate, we'll see if the rubber fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump works... That's next weeks adventure...

Could a piece of clear fuel line temporarily installed between the existing line and the pump tell you if the pump is sucking air along with the fuel from the tank? Bubbles along wit the fuel?

Seems like a leak somewhere "back there" would show up that way when the car is running and the pump is pumping. Might be a bit easier than running a rubber hose all the way back to the tank.

Vic Piano · 10-03-2013, 09:01 AM

Bill, that's not a bad idea, I was just going to run the rubber fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump, not following the original fuel line but outside of the car, to see if the manual pump will pull fuel and stay primed after a shut down.

Vic Piano · 10-09-2013, 06:59 AM

I'm expecting to get the '47 LC's water pumps back from Skip today. If so, I'll install them and get back to messin' with the fuel delivery issue. Maybe by this weekend we'll have her running (as she should) so we can try to get the overdrive working.

Steves46 · 10-09-2013, 07:58 AM

Hi Vic. Were you able to get the starter bench checked and/or rebuilt?

Vic Piano · 10-09-2013, 08:11 AM

Hi Steve, no, I haven't had a chance to pull the starter as yet... maybe this weekend... I might go to the Street Rod Nationals in Tampa on Saturday, Don will be going all three days so, you might run into him.

Steves46 · 10-09-2013, 08:23 AM

Cool. Hope to see you guys.

Vic Piano · 10-10-2013, 10:52 AM

Got the '47 LC water pumps back from Skip today...

A little paint and...

After they dry, I'll install them.

Vic Piano · 10-10-2013, 02:43 PM

I had a productive "lunch hour", I installed the water pumps on the '47 LC.

I'm sure I also burned a few calories stretching over those "fat fenders"

One of these days I'll learn to follow my own advice,

which is; always check to make sure the radiator petcock is closed before adding fluids...

Good thing it was only water... otherwise it would have run into money...

Vic Piano · 10-17-2013, 09:30 AM

In preparation for the drive up to the Moonshine Festival, I finally decided to get the broken door windows (long story ) in the '51 F-1 fixed. It's getting cool in North Georgia (read that cold for someone who’s been living in Florida for the last 21 years ) so I wanted to be able to close the windows to fend off any chill in the air...

We'll be driving two vehicles up this year, our '51 F-1 and Steve's '55 F-100. Mike and Cliff will be riding shotgun with us. Here's a photo of Steve's '55 taken at my mom's house back several years ago when we drove it up for the Moonshine Festival.

We're all looking forward to another fun ride, hope to see a bunch of FordBarner's there.

Vic Piano · 10-20-2013, 05:53 PM

My wife and I drove the '47 LC to a Halloween/Birthday Party Saturday night.

Today I spent some time trying to figure out the best way

to pack extra parts, etc. in the cab of the '51 F-1, for the trip up to Dawsonville for the Moonshine Festival this Thursday. I'll just put my luggage (one small bag) and my tool bag (a bit larger bag) in some plastic "garbage bags"

just to keep the rain (hopefully there won't be any) off. I'm sure looking forward to the trip.

Thaplumbr · 10-20-2013, 06:45 PM

Those are some nice looking trucks

Vic Piano · 10-21-2013, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaplumbr

Those are some nice looking trucks

Thanks. Steve and I appreciate that. Vic

Vic Piano · 10-28-2013, 07:28 AM

Moonshine Memories

Or should it be miseries...?

Nope…! We had fun!

And, when you drive em, and I mean really drive em, stuff happens, and you deal with it...

to me that's all part of the Flathead experience. Today I'll be back in the garage (or outside the garage in this case) changing the flat...

09-29-2013, 03:21 PM	#1201
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour What leads you to think it is the fuel pump causing the no-start? The carburetor should have fuel in it to start the engine after such a short down-time. I could understand a bad pump or lost prime if it didn't keep the carb bowl full while running.

09-29-2013, 03:36 PM	#1202
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Hi Vic. Have you checked the fuel line for any possible pin-hole leaks from the tank to the fuel pump? Do you have a fuel pump with a glass bowl laying around that you could swap-out. At least you could see if the pump is loosing prime. I have a hunch that something isn't right between the the tank and fuel pump. Good luck and hope you are able to isolate the cause. I have heard of fule hoses with built-in check valves but you shouldn't need one for stock set-ups. Steve. __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

09-29-2013, 04:10 PM	#1203
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Hi Gene & Steve, Here is what's happening, as far as I can tell. The car will fire and run until the fuel in the carb is spent. That much fuel (in the float bowl) will not keep the car running long enough to prime the fuel pump. We checked the fuel line both with the car running and shut off. We found no evidence of fuel leakage or air intake. We checked every visible part of the fuel line (portions of it run through the boxed sections of the frame and are not visible but you can feel with your hand several inches in and there was no sign of dampness). We may run an auxiliary fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump to see if that makes a difference. I don't have a fuel pump with the glass bowl on it that will fit the "early style" mount on the oil fill housing. As I mentioned, once the fuel pump is primed, the engine runs fine, it was breaking up a little under a load in high gear but that symptom could be attributable to fuel delivery or an electrical malady… and we’ve had both with this car… Oh well, now I’ve got to pull the water pumps and have Skip rebuild them and, I think I’ll pull the starter motor and have it checked out as well as long as the car will be stuck up on the lift… __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

09-30-2013, 10:07 AM	#1204
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Ok, I'll call this post "What I Did Before Breakfast" I pulled the water pumps off of the '47 LC and cleaned them up. The nice thing about the V-12 water pumps is, you don't have to support the engine as the pumps do not serve as the front motor mounts. Now I'll send thes pumps off to Skip for a rebuild. Next, on my lunch hour , I'll pull the starter motor out... Yes, we are having fun... __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-02-2013, 10:55 AM	#1205
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour I ordered an Airtex 6 volt 2 to 4 psi electric fuel pump for the '47 LC, should have it this afternoon. Before I install it, along with a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 psi) and a "kill" switch, I think I'll run a rubber fuel line from the gas tank up to the stock fuel pump and see if it will pull fuel. If it does, we'll replace the fuel line (that is in the car) with a new one. Can't play with the '47 LC this weekend, got other things to do... Should have the water pumps back from Skip sometime next week so, we'll shoot for next weekend. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-02-2013, 11:44 AM	#1206
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi Vic. I think running the temp rubber fuel line is a great idea for it should at least prove or rule-out the fuel pump as the culprit. __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

10-02-2013, 01:30 PM	#1207
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Hi Steve, after trying three different (known to be working) fuel pumps and getting the same result, I think it's safe to say that the problem is not directly related to the fuel pump. The strange thing is, once the fuel pump is primed, the car runs... there was an electric fuel pump in the car at one time however, it had been removed... At any rate, we'll see if the rubber fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump works... That's next weeks adventure... __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-03-2013, 09:01 AM	#1209
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Bill, that's not a bad idea, I was just going to run the rubber fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump, not following the original fuel line but outside of the car, to see if the manual pump will pull fuel and stay primed after a shut down. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-09-2013, 06:59 AM	#1210
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour I'm expecting to get the '47 LC's water pumps back from Skip today. If so, I'll install them and get back to messin' with the fuel delivery issue. Maybe by this weekend we'll have her running (as she should) so we can try to get the overdrive working. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-09-2013, 07:58 AM	#1211
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Hi Vic. Were you able to get the starter bench checked and/or rebuilt? __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

10-09-2013, 08:11 AM	#1212
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Hi Steve, no, I haven't had a chance to pull the starter as yet... maybe this weekend... I might go to the Street Rod Nationals in Tampa on Saturday, Don will be going all three days so, you might run into him. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-09-2013, 08:23 AM	#1213
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Cool. Hope to see you guys. __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

10-10-2013, 10:52 AM	#1214
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Got the '47 LC water pumps back from Skip today... A little paint and... After they dry, I'll install them. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-10-2013, 02:43 PM	#1215
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour I had a productive "lunch hour", I installed the water pumps on the '47 LC. I'm sure I also burned a few calories stretching over those "fat fenders" One of these days I'll learn to follow my own advice, which is; always check to make sure the radiator petcock is closed before adding fluids... Good thing it was only water... otherwise it would have run into money... __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-17-2013, 09:30 AM	#1216
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour In preparation for the drive up to the Moonshine Festival, I finally decided to get the broken door windows (long story ) in the '51 F-1 fixed. It's getting cool in North Georgia (read that cold for someone who’s been living in Florida for the last 21 years ) so I wanted to be able to close the windows to fend off any chill in the air... We'll be driving two vehicles up this year, our '51 F-1 and Steve's '55 F-100. Mike and Cliff will be riding shotgun with us. Here's a photo of Steve's '55 taken at my mom's house back several years ago when we drove it up for the Moonshine Festival. We're all looking forward to another fun ride, hope to see a bunch of FordBarner's there. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-20-2013, 05:53 PM	#1217
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour My wife and I drove the '47 LC to a Halloween/Birthday Party Saturday night. Today I spent some time trying to figure out the best way to pack extra parts, etc. in the cab of the '51 F-1, for the trip up to Dawsonville for the Moonshine Festival this Thursday. I'll just put my luggage (one small bag) and my tool bag (a bit larger bag) in some plastic "garbage bags" just to keep the rain (hopefully there won't be any) off. I'm sure looking forward to the trip. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

10-20-2013, 06:45 PM	#1218
Thaplumbr Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: jacksonville,arkansas Posts: 160	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Those are some nice looking trucks

10-28-2013, 07:28 AM	#1220
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: What I Did on My Lunch Hour Moonshine Memories Or should it be miseries...? Nope…! We had fun! And, when you drive em, and I mean really drive em, stuff happens, and you deal with it... to me that's all part of the Flathead experience. Today I'll be back in the garage (or outside the garage in this case) changing the flat... __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.