Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2020, 03:40 AM   #1
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Solution for audio system in model A?

Hi folks, I guess that's more of a question now for a hot rod forum, but I'll give it a try anyway.

I'm a very big fan of Model A's, but I'm also a very big music fan. Fortunately, today you can combine both in modern cars. I would now like to have this luxury in my 1930s Tudor.
The first ideas have emerged, but I'm still looking for some detailed solutions, and I hope for tips from like-minded people.
A very important point for me is that I don't want to change the original appearance of the car if possible. This means that the entire system should be hidden as possible.

For this purpose, NO car radio is installed, but the mobile phone or an MP3 player with Bluetooth is used. A small digital amplifier with 4x50W is installed under the rear seat, and the loudspeakers are to be hidden in the front in the footwell in easily exchangeable side panels. Covered with acoustic material so that you cannot see them.
Everything should be easy to retrofit, and I don't want to make any changes to sheet metal parts of the body that can only be removed with great effort.

My problem now is that I am looking for a hidden solution for a subwoofer. I admit that I am also a fan of very low audio frequencies, and I am aware that the small speakers in the footwell will probably not meet my needs.
The possibilities in Model A are very limited. I don't want to make a rolling disco out of the car, but I want to get the best result out of the least possible.

Who has ideas where you can install the largest possible woofer in the car without being seen?
A solution to put a bass box behind or on the seat is out of the question for me. How did other people solve the problem?

I'm looking forward to the lively discussion.

Greetings from Berlin
Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 07:52 AM   #2
ModelAMike1930
Senior Member
 
ModelAMike1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 382
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I mounted a modern 12 volt radio under the dash of my model a . I used a 6 volt to 12 volt converter. It works great also added a hidden antenna and insulated it from the body of the car. PS make sure you insulate both the radio and the antenna from the car body.
ModelAMike1930 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-24-2020, 07:56 AM   #3
ModelAMike1930
Senior Member
 
ModelAMike1930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 382
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I mounted the speaker enclosures behind the seats in my coupe.
ModelAMike1930 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 08:18 AM   #4
Bruce
Senior Member
 
Bruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sun City West, AZ
Posts: 489
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Buy a decent Bluetooth speaker. Rechargeable ones cost from $50-$250. The $50 one works great. The one we got at Best Buy hangs nicely from the dash rail by an integral rubber strap. It works great for listening to Rush during a lunchtime drive. If you really need surroundsound, buy some wireless earbuds. Your iPhone is your friend.
Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 09:15 AM   #5
wmws
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I don't mean to be rude but loud music is very annoying to some people around you. Do you get satisfaction from ear buds. Then you can listen to all the music you want, as loud as you want without bothering anyone else. To me the Model A engine is all the music I need.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 09:45 AM   #6
Hoogah
Senior Member
 
Hoogah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Warrnambool, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 800
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I reckon the use of earbuds while driving is a safety issue due to decreased awareness of external sounds. I wouldn't go down that path.
Hoogah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 10:01 AM   #7
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Ok, I expected answers like that.

First of all, ... As Hoogah already writes, there will be no headphone solution! The safety risk should be mentioned first, but even then it is too uncomfortable for me to drive with headphones. On the other hand, only ONE passenger has music, but cannot talk to other passengers! This way is NOT an option!

Furthermore, a flying plastic battery Bluetooth speaker is not a real way. The thing dangles all over, rolls under the pedal when braking, you have to charge it constantly, and none of the parts sound really good either. Not even that of the expensive brand manufacturer. For me there is definitely no way around a permanently installed audio system.

Quote:
I don't mean to be rude but loud music is very annoying to some people around you ...... To me the Model A engine is all the music I need.
Just because the amplifier has 4x50W doesn't mean I want to run a rolling disco. But the fact is that the Ford itself is not very quiet inside. You can hear the engine very clearly. If you want to listen to music then you need a reserve. Not meant badly: If the engine sound is enough for you, that's nice. I would like a little more entertainment on routes of 3-4 hours or more.


Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 10:15 AM   #8
Bruce
Senior Member
 
Bruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sun City West, AZ
Posts: 489
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Well Andy, I guess you really aren’t interested in a solution to your dilemma. But, if you are still open to suggestions, try one earbud. Give the other one to your first officer. Then you will both be listening to the same music and can still hear oncoming traffic and tell tale engine noises. I still think the Bluetooth speaker (which doesn’t dangle in my case) is a good one.
It works for me although not symphonically.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 1D020E06-6F76-4C97-B541-5F66F3B859EA.jpeg (20.7 KB, 40 views)
Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 10:34 AM   #9
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I am very interested in solving the problem. But this cannot be to exchange a balanced and customized speaker set for a plastic box. (Even if there is Bose printed on it.) For me, a stark but accurate comparison would have to use a shower radio in the I-Max cinema.

There are two wisdoms that have so far been undisputedly valid. Just as displacement in the engine cannot be replaced by anything else, except by MORE displacement, the same statement also applies to loudspeaker diaphragm surfaces. Every car enthusiast and music enthusiast will confirm this. To put it in a nutshell, I owned such a speaker. I used it and sold it less than a week because the result just didn't convince me.
This is a solution on the bathing blanket by the lake, but not for the car.

As for the headphones, I thought I would have given my point of view?!?!

Please don't get me wrong, I don't mean anything bad here. I don't want to step on anyone's feet, but I already have very specific ideas.

Greetings from Berlin
Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 10:39 AM   #10
Jack Shaft
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Problem with a sub is they take up too much space to be hidden..unless you get real crafty and ditch the rear seat cushion for passengers..fab up a sub box that replaces it,make it look like a seat bottom..

bumps in a model a?you'll be the first kid on the block..
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 11:10 AM   #11
gz
Senior Member
 
gz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,664
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I get it, I am a huge music fan as well. However, when I drive my Model As, I like listening to the famous "Tuck-a-Puck, Tuck-a-Puck" song coming from the engine following a chorus of "Singing Second" coming out of the transmission and occasionally a loud "a-hoo-gah" from the horn section. Model As make their own music-whether you want them to or not.

Last edited by gz; 05-24-2020 at 11:18 AM.
gz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 01:25 PM   #12
5lugnuts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Clermont in Central Florida
Posts: 111
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I think you have about eight to ten inches of unseen depth below the plywood floor under the drivers seat (behind the battery and under the seat). Woofers are none directional. Maybe you could build a box under the floor out of plywood that would conceal and protect the woofers and replace the hole you cut in the plywood floor with a grill and cloth or carpet . Then, put your woofer in the box you built under the floor.
5lugnuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 02:40 PM   #13
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Here is what I settled for. The front speakers are full range. No car mods so a stock kick panel can be re-installed.
The woofers also are full range but you could disable the mid and tweeter if desired. My radio has a fader so I can turn the rear volume down when riding people in the back.
I won't show you the radio because I just hung it under the dash. I also have a 2 way business radio in the car. It is completely out of sight.
I got the speakers at an audio shop.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2 door front speakers copy.jpg (10.0 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 2 door rear speakers1.jpg (15.1 KB, 45 views)
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 04:04 PM   #14
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Yes, now the topic is heading in the right direction.

@ Pete, yes, I already found these pictures here in the forum. Picture 1 shows the solution that I also prefer. However, at this point I am only planning a woofer / midrange that is covered by fabric. The tweeter should be mounted in the corners above the windscreen. I hope for a better illustration of stage.
This installation will be carried out by a car hifi specialist.

I don't like the rear speakers. Too obvious, I will completely do without them.

@ 5lugnuts

The space under the driver's seat is obvious at first glance. But if I think further now ... Are not the brake distributor shafts at this point under the floor? These can disturb?!?! I just don't know how much space there is for a speaker cabinet. It is also a question if the membrane is under the seat, whether dirt could collect there. All things that need to be considered.
It may not have to be an 8" or 10" either. Maybe a 6.5" is enough. I just have to see that I get a good chassis with a good efficiency, the frequency of which is as low as possible.

I was also considering maybe using the space under the back seat.

Kind regards
Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 04:17 PM   #15
Hitman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 485
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Since you’ll use your phone and Bluetooth, I’d go this route:

https://www.loudluggageco.com

Nothing to hide, no wires to run, plus it will be a cool conversation piece.

Last edited by Hitman; 05-24-2020 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Url
Hitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 04:23 PM   #16
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Looks very interesting, but is ultimately the "box" on or behind the seat that I didn't want. Sorry ...
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 05:09 PM   #17
Anteek29
Senior Member
 
Anteek29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 984
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I heartily concur with what GZ wrote!
__________________
Alan
1929 Special Coupe
1941 Pick-Up
1955 Victoria
Anteek29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 06:17 PM   #18
dumb person
Senior Member
 
dumb person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South pacific island
Posts: 1,724
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG-ler View Post
Who has ideas where you can install the largest possible woofer in the car without being seen?
A solution to put a bass box behind or on the seat is out of the question for me. How did other people solve the problem?

I'm looking forward to the lively discussion.

Greetings from Berlin
Andy
I often wanted to put one in an external truck on the back of the car.
This wouldn't be so easy to hear inside. But would be hilarious from the outside.

Once installed a sub' inside a rear seat. Worked well. Passengers liked it?

Although... putting one of these under a seat seems like a good idea?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Under-Se...-/192776453090
__________________
<Link> This is how we roll<Link>

"I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob
Outcasts rules of old cars
#1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated
#2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong
#3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough.
#4 No shame in recreating something you never had
#5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable
dumb person is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2020, 07:46 PM   #19
John Dayhuff
Senior Member
 
John Dayhuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Battle Creek, Michigan
Posts: 164
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmws View Post
I don't mean to be rude but loud music is very annoying to some people around you. Do you get satisfaction from ear buds. Then you can listen to all the music you want, as loud as you want without bothering anyone else. To me the Model A engine is all the music I need.
AMEN!! Just going to the gas station these days suck because sure enough someone has there music blasting while they spend ten minutes inside deciding what lottery ticket to buy. UGH!!
__________________
John
John Dayhuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 10:00 AM   #20
History
Senior Member
 
History's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 689
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Rush in a model A?? I like Rush and I'm not criticizing, it just never crossed my mind.

For some reason I listen to Ralph Stanley and the clinch boys doing "man of constant sorrow" or "short life of trouble", seems to fit in a model A in my area. Oh, on a bose mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
Buy a decent Bluetooth speaker. Rechargeable ones cost from $50-$250. The $50 one works great. The one we got at Best Buy hangs nicely from the dash rail by an integral rubber strap. It works great for listening to Rush during a lunchtime drive. If you really need surroundsound, buy some wireless earbuds. Your iPhone is your friend.
History is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 10:47 AM   #21
PalAl
Senior Member
 
PalAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Orangeville Illinois
Posts: 461
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by History View Post
Rush in a model A?? I like Rush and I'm not criticizing, it just never crossed my mind.

For some reason I listen to Ralph Stanley and the clinch boys doing "man of constant sorrow" or "short life of trouble", seems to fit in a model A in my area. Oh, on a bose mini.
Seemes like this too would be appropriate.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLwMqnA3Ug
PalAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 10:55 AM   #22
burner31
Senior Member
 
burner31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Shawnee, Ok
Posts: 3,471
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Have a Bluetooth speaker velcroed to the header, plays over the phone.
Small. no holes, no wires, easy to remove, I hardly/rarely ever use it tho...
__________________
Keith
Shawnee OK
'31 SW 160-B
burner31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-25-2020, 10:59 AM   #23
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Sorry guys but there is also a difference in taste. I also occasionally listen to music from the 30s, the BJ of the car, but this song fits better to Model A.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl038GkYhjU
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 03:42 PM   #24
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,774
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Why "multi-task"? Separate your activities! Listen to your music at home, with all your fancy gear. When you go out in your Model A, just drive! Enjoy the experience. Listen to the sounds of your surroundings, which constantly are changing. Listen to the sounds of the engine, as well as the entire car. Focus on adjusting the timing and GAV for changing conditions. Notice how the sounds change. There is so much to notice, to keep your mind occupied and focused on the task at hand (driving, not zoned out on electronic distraction)!
My goodness, people used to drive their A's all over Europe (and clear across the US) without the need for external entertainment!
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 03:54 PM   #25
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

EXACTLY!!! "My goodness" .... Why can not people just accept that other people have different opinions and ideas? Why does someone always have to be missionized? We used to have an emperor ... I live TODAY ... NOW ... A lot has changed.

Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 04:22 PM   #26
Bill G
Senior Member
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Posts: 1,044
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Andy, you asked a pretty reasonable question in my opinion. A subwoofer needs to move a lot of air and usually needs to be enclosed in just the right box to resonate well. Perhaps something under the back seat would work, but even though that is probably the only unused space in a Tudor, it isn't much. I don't think that a speaker mounted in the kick panel or inside a door panel will be good enough to be a subwoofer. They would just be ordinary speakers. Also, a subwoofer does need some pretty heavy gauge wire to drive enough current to get the wattage out of them. I think you have a design dilemma on your hands.
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 04:31 PM   #27
bettlesr
Senior Member
 
bettlesr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Florham Park, NJ
Posts: 396
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I used a 2000-2004 Subaru Outback under seat subwoofer. It uses speaker level inputs and a 12v supply. It turns on when the signal comes in the inputs.
__________________
1965 Lotus Elan S2
1930 Model A Sport Coupe
bettlesr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 10:43 PM   #28
PalAl
Senior Member
 
PalAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Orangeville Illinois
Posts: 461
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG-ler View Post
Sorry guys but there is also a difference in taste. I also occasionally listen to music from the 30s, the BJ of the car, but this song fits better to Model A.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl038GkYhjU
Yep.... that would be a good one as you chug down the road
PalAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 02:17 AM   #29
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
I don't think that a speaker mounted in the kick panel or inside a door panel will be good enough to be a subwoofer.
That is also my fear, which is why I am writing here.

Quote:
A subwoofer needs to move a lot of air and usually needs to be enclosed in just the right box to resonate well. Perhaps something under the back seat would work, but even though that is probably the only unused space in a Tudor, it isn't much.
There are some videos on YouTube that have dealt with this topic. People sat down and developed very, very small subwoofers. Here are some links ...

4.5 "woofer with 33 / 35Hz.
https://youtu.be/ew4aED-K5og
https://youtu.be/IkvUagEXf7w

3 "woofer
https://youtu.be/4_4tu4rAtgI

The projects are extremely interesting because they could be the solution to my problem. The question is whether they sound exactly as MY speakers in the living room convey to me and I imagine that?!?!
Here in the living room I have a Klipsch R-115SW. This is an absolutely great woofer that leaves no doubt. But he also turns the small sub's in the video into great speakers. In addition, it is so big that I wouldn't even get it through the door of the A's.

No, no question, you have to find compromises. In the end, there is still the option to do without a sub entirely if there is no proper solution. But better this solution than a bad solution.

@Bettlesr
You write that you have an under seat sub in operation? What are your sound experiences like? It won't fit under the driver's seat of the A's, or you have to build the seat so high that you hit your head. But he could find space under the back seat.
But there is a new problem with these that you just told me ... The 12V supply. You're right, to my knowledge these devices are only available as active sub, and that's exactly where my problem is. I have a 6V car, ... AND, I already have a digital amplifier, but it works with 24V. (And the voltage converter used for this from 6V to 24V.)
So I would need an additional voltage converter to 12V, which also takes up space again, and I would have half an amplifier that I can not use. The considerations still have to mature ...

Greetings
Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 02:58 AM   #30
dumb person
Senior Member
 
dumb person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South pacific island
Posts: 1,724
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG-ler View Post
So I would need an additional voltage converter to 12V, which also takes up space again, and I would have half an amplifier that I can not use. The considerations still have to mature ...

Greetings
Andy
That's why i wanted to put the sub' in a truck box. Room in it for a couple of 12 volt batteries that can be charged at home.
You seem like you'd want the sub inside the car, if you have a trunk, maybe it could become battery storage?
__________________
<Link> This is how we roll<Link>

"I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob
Outcasts rules of old cars
#1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated
#2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong
#3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough.
#4 No shame in recreating something you never had
#5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable
dumb person is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 05:42 AM   #31
bavArian
Senior Member
 
bavArian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Interesting thread, mainly because the same idea of music in the A is stuck in my head too! I have a good stereo in each of my cars, but the A is still giving me headaches on how to get good audio with minimal to no visual alterations of the interior.



I had similar ideas as the OP, but with a small 4-channel DSP-amplifier. Something along the lines of 2-way-front and a small subwoofer, actively controlled for clearer sound and higher efficiency.
Unfortunately, space is kinda rare in the roadster and here in Germany there is no practically no way to install anything modern in such an old car without running into problems with the TÜV, our technical equivalent of the DMV.
Depending on how much you want to invest and how high your standards are I'd say go for either small volume kickwoofers like the Peerless SLS 6.5 in a closed box under the A-pillar and a smaller broadband speaker just under the windscreen. The subwoofer would likely have to be under the seat in a roadster as there isn't really any alternative. Even then you can only go for a rather slim 10". It should be sufficient for about 50 to 60 Hz though, nothing for HipHop or eletronic music, but good enough for Pop and Rock. (curse you if you listen to Rap or Dubstep in a Model A anyway)


The biggest problem is the supply for the amplifiers. There are some step-up-switchers from 6 to 12 volts that can go 100 Watts or higher, but the original generator is the bottleneck. As far as I know it can't really provide much more energy than is required for the lights and the engine and certainly not enough to power a decent stereo.
I'd guess that you'd have to have an Alternator and a 12 volts conversion.


The easy way is to just use high-quality in-ears or headphones, but that kinda looks odd and I'm not really a fan of headphones.
bavArian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 11:41 AM   #32
bettlesr
Senior Member
 
bettlesr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Florham Park, NJ
Posts: 396
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I have the Subaru sub woofer under the front seat in my Sport Coupe. It's about 9 x 12 x 2". The speaker is a metal cone about 6" in diameter. There is a gain control as well as crossover frequency adjustment. It adds a nice thump to the low end. It turns on when a signal comes into the input. I have attached a picture of the same unit in my Lotus Elan, also under the drivers seat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Subaru Sub-woofer.jpg (50.7 KB, 28 views)
__________________
1965 Lotus Elan S2
1930 Model A Sport Coupe
bettlesr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 11:59 AM   #33
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
That's why i wanted to put the sub 'in a truck box. Room in it for a couple of 12 volt batteries that can be charged at home.
Yes, the idea has already been mentioned, is correct, but I don't really like it. I do not want any additional batteries that I have to charge at home. Which are always empty when it is the least convenient, and then possibly still be deeply discharged and damaged. No, the system should be able to be operated from on-board equipment as far as possible, and it should be possible to simply switch it off using the main switch on the battery.
The original battery sits under the floorboard where the driver has his feet. This is the point in the car that is most frequently entered. I don't think installing a loudspeaker there is optimal.

@ bavArian, greetings first to Bavaria! (If I take that from the nickname correctly ...)

The first thing I would be interested in is which amplifier you were thinking of. I hadn't found a small four-channel with DSP. I already had a Mosconi Pico II on the screen, but even this one uses too much power. My voltage converter only manages 80W continuous load, 130W peak.
I would also like to use the two-way front, but I don't like the tweeters on the Dashrail. These are too obvious there. They don't stand out so much above the windscreen, I think.

You write, "a small kickwoofer in a closed box under the A-pillar". Uh, did you take off the footwell panel? I can only reach a construction height of 4.5 cm there. Since I'm already on the sheet metal. If I now screw an MDF multiplex board onto it, I might reach 6.5 cm. I have to look for an extremely flat speaker set. In my view, there is no way of thinking of a housing where you could still install it. I rather think that you even have to find a loudspeaker here that has a very hard suspension so that it is not damaged in "free-air mode". I just looked at the Peerless, but I have too little idea about it to rate it. So I have to read further and acquire further knowledge.
50-60Hz is "actually" not enough for me. As a fan of trance and techno, you also want to feel lower frequencies.

Fortunately, as far as the generator is concerned, I already have an alternator ... with 78 amps. Unfortunately, my previous owner did not make a 12V conversion, so I now have to live with 6V. Current without end, but voltage, ... well.

But I was just outside again ... Because my rear side panel is currently removed, I could see that there is another 20x30cm space under the window crank under the window, installation depth about 9cm. There would be room for an 8 "woofer. But again not without problems. Again, it is not easy to build a housing. Free air would be better here. And, ... even if you don't drive such cars in the rain , but at least when washing the car, all the water that runs down the window drips onto the speaker, not ideal.
Is there actually a window seal? I think I'm going to open a new topic.


Thanks bettlesr for the picture.

Greetings Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2020, 12:44 AM   #34
Penthode
Member
 
Penthode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I guess I am the odd one out here. I like to drive my model A to better appreciate the period it was built. It seems to me odd that modern appliances such as music systems would be installed. Then again I think twice about any mechanical changes or updates which was not original to the vehicle. I will concede to adding a period fuse box to improve electrical safety or an oil filter to extend the period between oil changes.

The era of the Model A just misses the introduction of 6.3 volt filament vacuum tubes in 1932 which made automotive radios practical. The cost of a new car radio in those days was about the value of the second hand Model A by 1935.

Anyway I agree with those who like to listen to the engine RPM or any unusual knock that may appear in a journey.
Penthode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2020, 05:40 AM   #35
bavArian
Senior Member
 
bavArian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG-ler View Post
@ bavArian, greetings first to Bavaria! (If I take that from the nickname correctly ...)

The first thing I would be interested in is which amplifier you were thinking of. I hadn't found a small four-channel with DSP. I already had a Mosconi Pico II on the screen, but even this one uses too much power. My voltage converter only manages 80W continuous load, 130W peak.
I would also like to use the two-way front, but I don't like the tweeters on the Dashrail. These are too obvious there. They don't stand out so much above the windscreen, I think.

You write, "a small kickwoofer in a closed box under the A-pillar". Uh, did you take off the footwell panel? I can only reach a construction height of 4.5 cm there. Since I'm already on the sheet metal. If I now screw an MDF multiplex board onto it, I might reach 6.5 cm. I have to look for an extremely flat speaker set. In my view, there is no way of thinking of a housing where you could still install it. I rather think that you even have to find a loudspeaker here that has a very hard suspension so that it is not damaged in "free-air mode". I just looked at the Peerless, but I have too little idea about it to rate it. So I have to read further and acquire further knowledge.
50-60Hz is "actually" not enough for me. As a fan of trance and techno, you also want to feel lower frequencies.

Fortunately, as far as the generator is concerned, I already have an alternator ... with 78 amps. Unfortunately, my previous owner did not make a 12V conversion, so I now have to live with 6V. Current without end, but voltage, ... well.

But I was just outside again ... Because my rear side panel is currently removed, I could see that there is another 20x30cm space under the window crank under the window, installation depth about 9cm. There would be room for an 8 "woofer. But again not without problems. Again, it is not easy to build a housing. Free air would be better here. And, ... even if you don't drive such cars in the rain , but at least when washing the car, all the water that runs down the window drips onto the speaker, not ideal.
Is there actually a window seal? I think I'm going to open a new topic.



You guessed correctly.
But you're thinking in the wrong way. Basically, it doesn't matter how much power the amp CAN put out, it depends on HOW MUCH of that power you use. So you should be looking at speaker with a high efficiency so you can realise higher volumes with the little power that you can draw. With the highs and mids that's not really any problem as they don't use much power at a "reasonable" volume anyway.

Unfortunately, the lower frequencies are a bit of a problem. High efficiency results in bigger diameters for the same "low" frequency. So you have to make a compromise, either in max. volume or low frequency range.
The consumed idle-power of a digital DSP-amp isn't listed most of the time, but I'd estimate it to be around 2 amps at 12 volts. Meaning that you'd have about 50 W for the rest of the system, which should be enough if you're listening at reasonable volume with efficient speakers.



The speakers I mentioned have a mounting depth of about 86 mm, they're just the first ones that came to mind because I'll be using them in another car as part of a 3-way-frontsystem where space for the low channel is an issue too.
So you'll either have to make a new sidepanel which reaches a bit more into the footwell area for both sides or look for a speaker with lower mounting depth. I don't know if you can find one though, back when I searched around for the other car that was the only speaker which was reasonable in size AND prize. I've tested them a while back in makeshift wooden boxes with about 2,5 litres net-volume, and they were awesome, but that was in a 3-way-system. I don't know how good they work in the mid-frequencies.



I can understand the "need" for low frequencies, I'm listening to a wide range of Classic Rock all the way to HipHop and Trance/EDM so I like a good subwoofer too.

A subwoofer in the trunk MAY work if it's connected to the interior, if you're talking about the add-on trunk on luggage racks that's not an option. You'll entertain the pedestrians but you won't hear much inside, let alone "feel" anything.
You would have to try out how much can be heard through the upholstery in the A. Don't expect much though I guess.




If you really want to install a sound system in your A, I'd recommend you to register at www.klangfuzzis.de and ask around if someone has an idea on how to do it there. It seems that your standards for audio reproduction aren't "basic" if you mention Mosconi-amplifiers. There are some absolute car-audio-freaks in that forum, maybe they have a good idea. I doubt that you'll find someone with experience for this car though.
bavArian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 09:01 AM   #36
Badpuppy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Guthrie, OK
Posts: 1,141
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Consider multiple speakers - 4 @ 4" speakers have the same area as one 8", and may be an easier fit. Use identical speakers - wire two pairs in parallel and connect the two pairs in series to get the same impedance.

https://www.jimkyle.com/wp-content/u...1/Sweet-16.pdf

(You will have to read it in English; Google can't translate .pdf's.}
Badpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 12:46 PM   #37
bavArian
Senior Member
 
bavArian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

4 4" speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", but they usually don't have the same linear stroke. Find me a decent 4" that plays below 100 Hz in a small enclosure and isn't sub 85 db/W/m, that's gonna be a hard task.

Maybe something like several Faital Pro 3 would be usable, but with an lmax of 1.8 mm I don't think they'll be loud enough at lower frequencies for the use in a Model A.
Also you'll get mean interferences in the mid-range when using many speakers in close proximity without proper time alignment.


The easiest (and by far cheapest) solution is definitely a nice pair of in-ears, as much as I hate to admit that.
bavArian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 02:29 PM   #38
Dick Carne
Senior Member
 
Dick Carne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 467
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

I placed front speakers in the front cowl panels of our '29 Town Sedan and then placed a "pocket cover/flap" over them so that when I was not using the bluetooth, I could close the flaps and at least create the impression that these were "map pockets", similar to those on other models (there is also a snap at the top of the cowl panel next to the door that secures the flap when the radio is in use, thereby fully exposing the speaker). Since you have a tudor sedan, I'm wondering whether rear speakers could be mounted on the two side panels below the rear side windows, and then run the fabric from the side panel over the whole panel to include the speakers. Perhaps in doing so the speakers would not be so terribly obvious?

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm also considering running heated seats in my current restoration.
Dick Carne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 04:14 PM   #39
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Consider multiple speakers - 4 @ 4 "speakers have the same area as one 8", ...
Quote:
4 4 "speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", ...
So folks ... NOW but !!! Mathematics is not your strong point here! an 8 "woofer has the FOUR FOLD membrane surface of a 4" woofer !!!

But be it ... I could actually hide an 8 "woofer on the left and right in the rear side panel. That would give me a mathematical membrane area slightly smaller than a 12" woofer. And I think with 8 "speakers the selection, the frequency range and the efficiency is significantly better than with 4" speakers.

@ bavArian ...
I definitely won't have headphones. I want a car hifi solution, nothing for jogging ...

Quote:
I placed front speakers in the front cowl panels of our '29 Town Sedan and then placed a "pocket cover / flap" over them so that when I was not using the bluetooth, I could close the flaps and at least create the impression that these were "map pockets", ...
Also a very nice idea!

Quote:
... and then run the fabric from the side panel over the whole panel to include the speakers.
That was indeed my plan. I don't want to see speakers later.

OffTopic:
I personally do not need heated seats. In winter I don't really want to drive over salted roads. I could also imagine that the heating mats do not last long due to the springs in the upholstery.

Greetings Andy
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 02:46 AM   #40
bavArian
Senior Member
 
bavArian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 215
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

4 times 4" speakers are 1 8" speaker, that's what we meant.

I believe the main problem still is a good and loud enough front-system. Without that you'll never be able to enjoy good music. So where do you want to place the low/mid- and the high-drivers?
bavArian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 07:55 AM   #41
Badpuppy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Guthrie, OK
Posts: 1,141
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavArian View Post
4 4" speakers may have the same membrane area as 1 8", but they usually don't have the same linear stroke.
(Original post deleted)

You're right. The same area requires the same throw to displace the same volume.

Last edited by Badpuppy; 05-29-2020 at 10:09 AM. Reason: To conceal my fuzzy thinking.
Badpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 09:15 AM   #42
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

There is still no final decision on the speaker set itself. I'm still completely open, but I want to listen to the advice of the car hifi specialist. Www.carhifi-berlin.de takes care of the production of the kick panel and its installation including the loudspeaker.

The plan was to use a two-way system, the large speaker in the side panel under the tank. The tweeters in the corners above the windscreen.
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-29-2020, 10:10 AM   #43
Badpuppy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Guthrie, OK
Posts: 1,141
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

@DRG-ler Note my edit above. Best to consult the pros.
Badpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 10:14 AM   #44
DRG-ler
Senior Member
 
DRG-ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 182
Default Re: Solution for audio system in model A?

Is everything ok.
DRG-ler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 PM.