Off Set Crank Grinding

[frnkeore]

Who on the West Coast, does off set crank pin grinding? The West Coast, because of shipping charges.

My local guy, will only commit to doing .010, off center. He won't do more, because it tears up his grinding wheels.

I don't need much, at this time, only .040/.050 but, if I ever come up with a Merc crank, I like to do a full .065

[Mr. Will]

John Specialty Service

1002 102nd St E, Tacoma, WA 98445
(253) 396-1814

[frnkeore]

Thank you, Will

[40 Deluxe]

Mulder's Auto Machine Shop Boise, Idaho (208) 344-9011

[frnkeore]

40 Deluxe, thank you, also.

[Talkwrench]

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You could give Tim a call at Hanford Auto Supply, He might

Hanford, California 93230-4650
yblockguy.com

[frnkeore]

I do plan to talk to Tim. I got a private message regarding him and his Face Book page and I looked at it.

A very impressive man!

But, I will talk to all three. Again thank you all.

Frank

[frnkeore]

Update:
John Specialty Service, no longer off set grinds cranks, since the owner retired. They are still in business though.

I talked to Tim, a very nice guy. Price is reasonable and I may, very well go with him, if nothing else but, just to have more conversations

Mulders, has answered his phone today but, I will keep trying.

Frank

[frnkeore]

I just talked to Mulder and he is still doing it.

He doesn't have a set price and quotes $200 minimum and says that $300 is about maximum, depending on how much time it takes him.

Frank

[frnkeore]

Another up date on off set crank grinding.

Today, I found a guy in Redding, CA, only 160 miles from me, that both knows flat heads and does off set crank grinding. He has been in the business for 50+ years and has built 21 stud engines.

He doesn't have a web page and is simi retired. He works 3 day a week but, can give very fast turn a round times, if required.

His prices are also, in the $200 range.

Contact Information:

L & M Grinding
1301 E Cypress Ave
Redding, CA 96002

Contact: Mario Frugugliette
Phone: (530) 221-7652

[RalphM]

Just curious, So in doing this grinding do they weld additional material on then offset grind it to use the same size bearing? Or do they offset grind it and then use a smaller bearing?

[Bored&Stroked]

It depends on the crankshaft, desired stroke, process used, etc.. The most typical example in our Flathead world is taking a late Mercury 4" stroke crankshaft - which has 2.138 journals and offset grinding the journals down to a 1.999 1939-1941 221 cubic inch flathead size. By doing an offset grind, you can increase the stroke to 4.125" - then you used the 39-41 91A/21A rods and the smaller 1.999 full-floating bearings and you were good to go.

This was how guys created the standard "full-race" flathead --- with a 3 3/8 bore (3/16 oversize) and a 4 1/8 stroke crankshaft, you now turned a 239 flathead into a 296 cubic inch flathead.

Now - outside of this example, there were a lot of custom crankshaft shops in the 50's/60's that would weld up a regular crankshaft (to essentially move the journal further out), then offset grind the welded up journal, to achieve a big stroke. Shops like "Reath Automotive" in Long Beach would weld and offset grind all sorts of different cranks to increase the displacement of many different engines. A great example is the Early Chrysler Hemi - they'd take a 392 cubic inch engine and stroke it to 450 or so cubic inches (all due to creating "welded strokers").

In our modern world, we have custom billet crankshaft shops that basically carve you out the crankshaft you need, with the journals/rods you want to run and can make dang near anything (that fits in the specific engine package). You just don't see that many "welded strokers" these days. Of course these custom billet cranks have a long lead time to produce and have a very high price tag. $2500 on the low end . . .

[Dodge]

Yes Mario is awsome. He worked in a shop near me that did sprint car motors until he moved to Redding and opened his own shop you won’t be disappointed.

Dodge

[frnkeore]

Originally Posted by RalphM

Just curious, So in doing this grinding do they weld additional material on then offset grind it to use the same size bearing? Or do they offset grind it and then use a smaller bearing?

Like me, he doesn't think that welding a cast crank is a good thing, at all.

It should only be done on forged cranks and my felling on that, is if done and long term reliability is expected, the whole crank should be re-heat treated. If you re-heat treat, you also need to know the parent material or the heat treat company won't be able to do it.

Since I was a mechanic, in the 60's, we talked about some of the common things done in those days, like welding journals. It was extremely common and he use to have a crankshaft welder that he sold a few year ago.

The other common thing that was done, was grinding both main and rod journals, in the block, with the pan off.

As a racer and a aircraft machinist, Mario impressed me, very much.

[frnkeore]

I just added this thread to the new product thread.

My research only involves the West Coast area. Could others add Mid West and East Coast crank grinders, that can do off set grinding, if they have that info so it covers all of the US?

[flatheadmurre]

Problem with welding up a crank is that you weld up as much on the side you don´t want any extra material on or the crank will warp.
Then you have to straighten it and grind off a lot of material...not a fun task !
I used to have an old gleeson but it was retired when i moved my shop from town out to the homestead.
Mostly big diesels with spun bearings we did in it...and not many strokers.

[Ol' Ron]

B&S
I bought a welded stroker from C&T automotive back in the 60s for around 300 bucks. This was for a 312 "T" block. It included, Pistons and rings, rods bored for 29a floaters, and bearings. It was one of the most impressive engines I ever built. I only had two engines that would light the tires while cruising at 60 or so. This one and a 392 Hemi I had in a 47 Plymouth. Memories are sometimes all we have.

[flatjack9]

I've got an old CT 4 1/2" stroker crank for the flathead.

[outlaw]

Here is an excellent drawing that explains it. I cannot get it to post right side up. Sorry.

[RalphM]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I've got an old CT 4 1/2" stroker crank for the flathead.

That’s a lot of stroke!
Are special rods needed to clear the base of the cylinders?

It would be easy to pass the 300 cubic inch mark with that one!

[cadillac512]

Yes, a 3 3/8 X 4 1/2 flathead is 322 cu. in. Going to wear out a die grinder getting air in and out of that one! Or a blower....



Terry

[frnkeore]

Here is a up right version in a JPG format.

[frnkeore]

No one knows of a shop that does off set grinding, East of the Rockies?

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by frnkeore

No one knows of a shop that does off set grinding, East of the Rockies?

My crank grinder here in Charlotte offset grinds Merc cranks for me.

[Pete]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatjack9.
I've got an old CT 4 1/2" stroker crank for the flathead.Quote

Originally Posted by RalphM

That’s a lot of stroke!
Are special rods needed to clear the base of the cylinders?

It would be easy to pass the 300 cubic inch mark with that one!

4.5 is fairly common these days. 4.75 not so much.. That gives you 352 ci.
I have seen inside a couple of other people's 340 and 350 ci attempts and they wondered why they didn't perform like expected. The ports had been done like the old days. Just decobbed and polished. Depending on the tools available it can take 10 hours just to do one intake port if you take it to as big as it will go. The grinding isn't the problem, it is stopping so often to sonic gauge the wall. The ports absolutely need to be as big as possible and few are willing to invest the time or money to do that. I can tell you that a set of 2 inch Hilborn SBC injectors REALLY work well over the Hilborn Ford flathead injectors.

As for the rods clearing the block with long strokes, a die grinder and burr is how I do it.

Here is a modified Carrillo rod that clears a 1 inch stroke. The rod has piston and pin oilers.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Originally Posted by frnkeore

No one knows of a shop that does off set grinding, East of the Rockies?

I've had a few 4 1/8" strokers done by Dennis at Fowler Engines in Columbus. Fowler has his own crank grinding machine and the guy that runs it is extremely good - and the machine is high quality and well maintined.

Example: I had a high-end billet crankshaft made with BBC journals - the manufacturer was supposed to give me "race clearances" that would be about .0025 - .003 on the rods and .0035 on the front mains and .004 on the rear. When I received it, it was not correctly done - they used the loose side of a typical BBC grind.

I took the crank to Dennis and asked if he could grind .001 off the journals (which means .0005 a side). He said as long as the crank was new and straight, he could do it. He did it no problem.

Anyway, would recommend Fowler Performance for any crank work in this area. Also, they do have the automated crank welding machine to fix journals - and Dennis uses it quite often.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I've had a few 4 1/8" strokers done by Dennis at Fowler Engines in Columbus. Fowler has his own crank grinding machine and the guy that runs it is extremely good - and the machine is high quality and well maintined.

Example: I had a high-end billet crankshaft made with BBC journals - the manufacturer was supposed to give me "race clearances" that would be about .0025 - .003 on the rods and .0035 on the front mains and .004 on the rear. When I received it, it was not correctly done - they used the loose side of a typical BBC grind.

I took the crank to Dennis and asked if he could grind .001 off the journals (which means .0005 a side). He said as long as the crank was new and straight, he could do it. He did it no problem.

Anyway, would recommend Fowler Performance for any crank work in this area. Also, they do have the automated crank welding machine to fix journals - and Dennis uses it quite often.

I suspicion Fowler stole my shipping box.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by frnkeore

Here is a up right version in a JPG format.

Thank you for fixing that.

[frnkeore]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

My crank grinder here in Charlotte offset grinds Merc cranks for me.

Can you post it's name and a contact number?

Thank both you and Dale, for the added places.

[KiWinUS]

Google Carolina Crankshafts. My cranks get picked up & delivered back to my friends machine shop.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Pete

I suspicion Fowler stole my shipping box.

Not sure what you're mentioning Pete - but Fowler is not the type of guy that would steal anything. He's as solid of a human being as they come . . .

[Ol' Ron]

Dick Asareto from mass runs a 342? flathead in hid dragster, Limits revs to 4500. Saw the engine befor it was assembled.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Dick Asareto from mass runs a 342? flathead in his dragster, Limits revs to 4500. Saw the engine befor it was assembled.

Wow, he is sure leaving a lot of hp on the table at 4500.