Valve adjusting

[frnkeore]

How many here set their valve clearance, with the engine hot and running?

Frank

[Jim44]

What am I missing? If a Ford V-8 flathead is ready for valve adjustment, the intake must be removed for access. The engine might still be hot, but it won't be running. Perhaps the question refers to a flathead with overhead valve conversion, as maybe Ardun heads??

[Tinker]

its a question though.


it can be done actually if you have the right equipment. most everyone does not. nor is really needed.


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[tubman]

Originally Posted by Tinker

its a question though.


it can be done actually if you have the right equipment. most everyone does not. nor is really needed.


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I, for one, would be very interested in a description of what the "right equipment" might be. I cannot imaging how it would be done. Would someone be able to post a picture of it in use? I'd very much like to see how it is done.

[Tinker]

tubby, there are intake stacks that allow you to access the valley and run a intake. I'll get you some pictures.


heres one set.


https://www.imgrumsite.com/post/B1wW-fFHPFX


heres another..,
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...151-1798297924


not sure anyone ever really used them


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[frnkeore]

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Here you go, one of the mechanic tools that are now, long gone, like the tool to adjust the brake anchors. You might see them on Ebay but, I doubt the the seller would know what they are.

Frank

[tubman]

Amazing! Now that they had access to them, I still don't see how they could adjust the valves. With regular Ford (non-adjustable) lifters, it would be impossible to do anything as far as I can see. Even with adjustable lifters, I don't see how it could be done. Those old Johnson wrenches that were supplied with their adjustable lifters are almost impossible to use on an engine that isn't running. I don't see how they could be used in a running engine. The diagram in Frank's post shows a D/L carburetor, meaning these were of '32-'33 vintage; did adjustable lifters for flatheads even exist back then? I don't believe any flathead Ford came from the factory with adjustable lifters; they are an aftermarket performance item only. I highly doubt that KR Wilson made specialty tools for hot rodders in the early thirties.

Are you guys sure these "accessories" were designed for valve adjustment, and not just for inspection of a running engine's valve train? Has anyone ever tried to do it?

[chap52]

I remember doing, attempting to adjust the valves on my first car, a 1954 Ford 2 dr Wagon with the valve covers off and the engine running. Don't think I ever figured it out trying to adjust a moving rocker arm. All I can actually remember was the BIG puddle of oil in my folks driveway that I had to deal with.
As a sixteen year old I had all the answers, could look like I knew what I was doing and make others shake their heads in agreement...Then I joined the military... The older I get the more I realize that there is a lot I never knew... Chap

[tubman]

One of the advantages of the SBC and similar engines is that the lifter adjustment point is stationery so adjusting them is possible with the engine running. It is much more difficult when the adjustment point is constantly reciprocating and spewing hot oil, as "chap52" points out. Now add to this trying to work in the confines of the liter valley in a flathead with the "Mickey Mouse" lifter wrenches, and the task becomes impossible. And this is positing the use of adjustable lifters that were probably unavailable at the time the risers shown were developed.

Sorry gentlemen, those risers may exist, but I don't believe they were ever intended as a way to adjust the valves. They were probably intended for display or observation purposes only.

[Gary in La.]

Those are KRW manifold risers and a quote from the KRW catalog states "hunting for noisy valves". "They will give you the inside picture". Not used to adjust the valves but to locate valves needing adjustment.

[Anteek29]

Never knew about those manifold risers...I always learn something new on the Forum.

[JSeery]

I'm seen the raised manifolds before, but not sure how it could be used to adjust the valves. I have never seen it done and don't see how it could be. Would be really interesting with a high lift cam!!!

[frnkeore]

The adjustment would come after finding the valve or valves that needed to be adjusted.

My real point was to see if there were very many that still knew of this devise I didn't, I found it in the book, Ford V8 Cars and Trucks ('50 revision), a 896 page book that has every detail of the early Fords.

My dad worked at a Authorized Ford rebuilder, from '46 to '51 and had a few tools, made for working on FH's.

He had a timing devise that bolted to the timing over (anyone have a picture of that), to set the valve lash (I don't have that now) and "dumby" valve guild that you use for the mushroom valves, I still have that, as well as a Stromberg, jet wrench and many old Snap-On and Blue Point tools. I keep them all in his 6 draw, Snap-On tool box (draws still slide smoothly), that he gave me when I became a mechanic, in 1962, after HS.

Frank

[supereal]

Stock flathead valves are adjusted by grinding the valve shafts on the lifter end. We have a very old tool set that will get us close, When we rebuild an engine we use the adjustable lifters with the self lockers. Many years ago, even with great care, it seems we always had at least one noisy valve. Taking the intake manifold off is no small job, as most know, but the only way to fix the problem.

[Gary in La.]

Over the years of swap meets and looking thru old dealer stuff I have seen probably 4 or 5 of these. BUT, the special gas canister and fittings were never there. I always passed them up hoping to find a complete set up, but never did.

[petehoovie]

KR WILSON MANIFOLD RISER

[frnkeore]

These are two types of dummy guild that I have, I'm sure there are others.

The one on the left, is a K-D, the one on the right, was the one I got from my dad. It's a Rimac and in my opion, a better design.

Frank

[frnkeore]

That's a great close up picture, Pete. Thank you.

[glennpm]

I have clips that I bought to hot adjust SBC valves. The clips slip over the end of the rocker arm and block the oil hole in the rocker from the supply oil up the push rod. I got these after making a real mess a few times. The hot oil wasn't fun either!

I ended up measuring the hot to cold clearances and adjust them cold now. The difference is .001" greater for the intake and .0015 for the exhaust on my cam.

Not applicable for the Flathead of course but I thought it might be interesting to some of you guys.

Originally Posted by tubman

One of the advantages of the SBC and similar engines is that the lifter adjustment point is stationery so adjusting them is possible with the engine running. It is much more difficult when the adjustment point is constantly reciprocating and spewing hot oil, as "chap52" points out.

[Pete]

Those risers could be of good use if you wanted to look at the valve train with a strobotach while the engine is running.
We use a variable speed electric motor to drive the engine for that operation, lots less oil mess.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by tubman

Sorry gentlemen, those risers may exist, but I don't believe they were ever intended as a way to adjust the valves. They were probably intended for display or observation purposes only.

Tubman you're right. I knew the risers existed. The actual purpose escaped me. Probably rare for a reason.

I have adjustable lifters in my 36 and 38 motors. Rebuilt of course....


Adjusting flathead lifters when running would be quite the feat of impossible.


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[ford38v8]

I had Chevy 6's back in the day, which were easy peasy to adjust while running. The last one I did was in a '55 tudor, back in 1968. As I recall, the only real messes were due to being too cheap to install a new valve cover gasket when you're done.

[Terry,OH]

I have a couple of the KD valve guide replacement bushings for lapping flat heads, both have light duty springs on the top to make the valve rise off the seat. Both of mine are made of white metal, but they work very well. K R Wilson also made a replacement guide for lapping, in cast iron. Nice to have old tools.

Could never understand how to do a hot valve adjustment on a flat head. By the time the intake is removed the engine has cooled and your fingers are burned.

[glennpm]

Me either Terry! By the time you get to the valves the temperature is a little more than room temperature. The specs should have been provided for "cold" i.e., room temperature instead.

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Could never understand how to do a hot valve adjustment on a flat head. By the time the intake is removed the engine has cooled and your fingers are burned.

[Gary in La.]

AHA! Now you know the reason for the KRW risers. Run the engine, locate loose valve adjustment and adjust while engine is still warm. Will still cause burned fingers.

[tubman]

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It looks like a lot of people here have never adjusted the valves on a stock engine. With a stock engine, the whole valve assembly has to be removed, disassembled, and the stem ground (or the face ground depending on whether you are loose or tight). I can't see how the heat can be retained in any way given this situation. KR Wilson made tools for people working on stock engines, not hotrodders with their fancy adjustable tappets.

The only thing that I can see those risers are for is detecting a noisy tappet. Once detected, it can be corrected the conventional way. A hotrodder with adjustable tappets may be able to adjust the valves hot, but that's not what they were made for.

[flatjack9]

You can measure the clearance when hot, then make the appropriate adjustment and run the engine again to retest. Sort of an ordeal.

[Gary in La.]

The correct deduction.

[big job]

I have machined an adapter for the cam for a 1/2 reversible variable drill. It runs rpm
wise as if it was at idle, not only that its a positive oil pressure check. Using go no go
feelers I positively know whats going on with the lash. Thats my last step on a rebuild
before butting it up. Then on the test stand with muffer & tail pipe water and fan.Instant
start then re torque heads. Thats done next we have a EAB with automatic thats going to
be cool / reserved for a 49 4dr but maybe cause another EAB with OD may be the deal...

[glennpm]

Found this in my Ford V-8 Cars and Trucks book by Henley! Bought this book a few weeks ago after seeing it mentioned here. It makes fun reading.

[B-O-B]

You guys want to adjust valves hot just come on down to the dez. It has been around 110/120 degrees lately. Just leave your engine set outside for a spell & it will be hotter'n you can touch. LOL

[JSeery]

Keep in mind that the heads have to come off during all this as well. You can't remove the valve assembly without removing the heads.

[richard crow]

any one who thinks you can adj the valves on a flathead while running has never adjusted them. even with adjustable lifters how are you going to hold the lifter from turning while you turn the screw.next thing some one will say you can change the fly wheel ring gear while the eng is running

[RKS.PA]

Originally Posted by richard crow

any one who thinks you can adj the valves on a flathead while running has never adjusted them. even with adjustable lifters how are you going to hold the lifter from turning while you turn the screw.next thing some one will say you can change the fly wheel ring gear while the eng is running

Richard, I'm working on this. You do have to remove the starter, however, to access the ring gear. With engine running, you can pull the new ring gear on as the flywheel rotates to even the fit in the flywheel groove. May do a UTube video later once I get this down!!

[frnkeore]

If someone comes in with a noisy lifter and wants it fixed, before you can fix it, you must, first check the valve clearance, correct?

This would be a great time saver, the head/s and intake has to come off, no matter what, unless you have adjustable lifters, to fix it.

With adjustable lifters, you first stop the engine, then adjust the loose lifter and then, start the engine again to see if you found all of the offending lifters.

And then, you can start it, one last time, to make sure it's quite, before giving it back to the customer.

So, this is part of the process of adjusting the valve clearance.

[Tinker]

A nice mix of opinions here.


I've never adjusted valves hot on flatheads or yblocks. They seemed to run okay cold.


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[ford38v8]

There are instructions for adjustable lifters I used once (can't find them now), spark plugs out, carb blocked open, one rear wheel off the ground, tranny in reverse, adjust two valves per position, helper turns wheel to next position... Well, I guess you don't really need those instructions, but helpful to know which 2 valves to watch per position. Or was it 4 valves per?... I do remember it seemed easier to do one bank complete, then move to the other side.

[Tinker]

It's two valves, maybe for 4 with exhaust valves. Like 1 and 6 intake. It's has been shared. Dial indicator is nice to find the lobe.

[ford38v8]

Thanks, the sequence was handwritten for me by an old timer. Now I'm the old timer and I got CRS.

[Tinker]

I'm a near old timer, the next old fart, Don't know what CRS is but god bless you.



https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167286

[Pete]

For "olden timerz" or anyone else, the simplest method to remember is, start at #1 ex and go straight down the line. Just mark each one with chalk after it is done.
When you get to the point where you can't see the chalk marks, get your grand son to help you...

[ford38v8]

Can't remember s___t.

[Tinker]

Ya ya... you remember all the good stuff Alan. I've followed you for a long time. You've been everywhere.

[ford38v8]

Nope, not everywhere. Not going down there just yet, please.

[Mart]

I use the technique where you set the motor to a particular position and can adjust 6 valves, then another position and you can do 6 more, then a final position and the last 4 get done.

I would imagine the post above about using the wheel to turn the motor would benefit from this method as it involves the least amount of motor turning.

I got the method from a Motors manual.

Mart.

[ford38v8]

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Mart, that's too easy. Your helper would fall asleep in between changing positions.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I had Chevy 6's back in the day, which were easy peasy to adjust while running. The last one I did was in a '55 tudor, back in 1968. As I recall, the only real messes were due to being too cheap to install a new valve cover gasket when you're done.

Trouble with those Chevies was that the valve stems wore into the rocker arm faces and would chew up a feeler gauge if you tried to adjust while running! You couldn't get an accurate adjustment with the engine off, either.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

There are instructions for adjustable lifters I used once (can't find them now), spark plugs out, carb blocked open, one rear wheel off the ground, tranny in reverse, adjust two valves per position, helper turns wheel to next position... Well, I guess you don't really need those instructions, but helpful to know which 2 valves to watch per position. Or was it 4 valves per?... I do remember it seemed easier to do one bank complete, then move to the other side.

"tranny in reverse"? That helper must have been a real gorilla! Plus, turning the engine that fast must have made it a real bear to stop at exactly the right position. Much, much easier to put the trans in high!

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

"tranny in reverse"? That helper must have been a real gorilla! Plus, turning the engine that fast must have made it a real bear to stop at exactly the right position. Much, much easier to put the trans in high!

See? I told you I'm afflicted with CRS.

[Tinker]

If you play a country song backwards, what do you get? ......all your stuff back. Ya lame but a good street joke.


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https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213835




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