High Oil Pressure?

[37Flat]

I've started my 221 several times now and all seems well except the oil pressure. I used a mechanical oil pressure gauge on my startup stand, as it's supposed to react faster. It shows pressure immediately after starting and I thought all was well, but the pressure shows to keep climbing until it pegs out at 100psi! I find it hard to believe that a stock 221 on idle would develop that much pressure with a stock 60# pump. Bad gauge? Any ideas?
Thanks for any help.

[JSeery]

Could be the gauge. Are you sure the pressure relief valve in the engine valley is working properly?

[37Flat]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Could be the gauge. Are you sure the pressure relief valve in the engine valley is working properly?

No idea. Everything is new. How would I check that?

[JSeery]

Who assembled the engine? Maximum oil pressure shouldn't be higher than what the relief valve is set at. Guess the oil passages could be restricted to the point that it required maximum pump pressure to attempt to move the oil past the restriction. I would try a different pressure gauge but only run the engine long enough to get a reading (or try to get a reading without allowing the engine to start). If the reading is still high I would say the engine needs to come apart to see what is impeding the oil flow.

[Drbrown]

I agree with JSeery and if the gauge is good, would first suspect the relief valve. Someone could have installed the relief valve incorrectly or used a wrong spring for it. I remember 'Ol Ron saying excessive pressure can damage the bearings. Using 10w-30 oil I get 70 lbs cold at idle but it drops to about 20 lbs at 175 degrees running temp at idle, and all that seems about ideal. Let us know what you find.

[flatjack9]

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The relief valve is located under the intake manifold under a plug at the front of the engine.

[Mike in AZ]

Just two normal ports where you have the gauge? Mike

[big job]

What I would do (after confirming with a good gauge that still reads high) is remove
the intake and all spark plugs. Remove pressure relief valve jump starter solenoid and
watch to see if you get a good flow of oil if not there is a blockage preventing the relief
valve to do its job. If all is good focus on the relief spring and valve. If all is not good
well you know whats has to happen. Maybe the first two cam bearings installed incorrectly???? I suppose you could put 60# shop air into the oil sender port & listen??

[flatheadmurre]

Even if the bearings are blocking the flow the relief valve should do it´s job unless the return path is blocked.
And the stock 221 pump is not putting out a high flow...so i agree on that relief valve is high on the list of suspects.

[john in illinois]

If you have an air compressor with a pressure regulator you can use this to get an idea if your gage is working as a start.


John

[37Flat]

OK, I'll check the gauge first. The engine was rebuilt by an experienced mechanic - does lots of flatheads. The relief valve has a new spring (Mac's) and seemed ok when I put it in, but I guess I'll find out. Let you know what happens. Thanks for the help.

[37Flat]

Ok, after a few delays, I have checked the gauge with 60#'s of air pressure and it held steady at 60. I pulled the relief valve - it seemed fine, but I went ahead and changed it out for the original one. Put it all back together, cranked it and it started right up, ran smooth and the gauge climbed to 100#'s. The picture shows how the gauge is hooked up, but I can't imagine how this would make it read high.

Any other thoughts before I go discuss this with my machinist? Thanks.

[JSeery]

Don't remember you saying you have an external filter. Remove the filter and jumper the oil lines across and see what happens. I would not keep running this engine if the oil feed is restricted to the bearings!

[flatjack9]

Are you using a 59AB oil pump? Also, I would measure the pressure at the inlet to the engine after the filter. I'm surprised that 100 psi doesn't blow the seal on the oil filter.

[Talkwrench]

That doesn't look right. Although it looks like you have 1/2" lines those fittings in the block dont look like 3/8 NPT ? I could be wrong.. You definitely have the grub screw in place between the two ports. Shorten those lines as much as possible, double check they're on the right way round [Ask Ron ; o ) ]. I can't see how you can pull over 60 lbs the relief should be doing its job, unless you have a blockage in the pipe....maybe??

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Are you using a 59AB oil pump? Also, I would measure the pressure at the inlet to the engine after the filter. I'm surprised that 100 psi doesn't blow the seal on the oil filter.

I have blown up oil filters, I also would be concerned about that.

[37Flat]

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

That doesn't look right. Although it looks like you have 1/2" lines those fittings in the block dont look like 3/8 NPT ? I could be wrong.. You definitely have the grub screw in place between the two ports. Shorten those lines as much as possible, double check they're on the right way round [Ask Ron ; o ) ]. I can't see how you can pull over 60 lbs the relief should be doing its job, unless you have a blockage in the pipe....maybe??

Yes, they're 3/8 - Red's Headers Full Flow Kit. In on the filter is going to out on the block and vise a versa, assuming the machinist did it the way the directions said.

[37Flat]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Are you using a 59AB oil pump? Also, I would measure the pressure at the inlet to the engine after the filter. I'm surprised that 100 psi doesn't blow the seal on the oil filter.

Yes, it's the one that came out of the engine. Everything was good, so I just cleaned it and put it back.

[Talkwrench]

Chris just make sure its doing this.

[40cpe]

The center port on the remote filter should be connected to the "in" side of the engine. It looks like the out from the engine is attached there.

[john in illinois]

If the hoses are hooked up wrong the anti drainback valve in the filter will block all oil to your engine except the rear main. Do not even crank it over until you are sure it is hooked up ok.

John

[JSeery]

I still think it is best to remove the filter and just connect the hoses together until you figure out what is going on. You should also move the oil pressure sender to the post nearest the center line of the engine. It needs to be reading the input to the engine oil galley, not the output of the oil pump.

This is just a side note and not that big an issue, but that is not a 100% remote oil filter system, the oil to the rear main is still by-passing the filter. Not a good or bad thing, just how this approach works.

[37Flat]

I checked the hookup on the filter against the diagram (thank you Talkwrench) and it was hooked up correctly. Too be on the safe side, I connected the hoses together as you suggested, JSeery and then started it up. Shut it off when it started heading towards 80#'s. Unless you have any other ideas, I guess I'll go talk to the machinist tomorrow. At least I know everything else works. Thanks for the help.

[JSeery]

One last thing is to move the oil sensor to the input to the oil galley so you know what is going into the engine. That would be the inlet nearest the center line. Another way to totally eliminate the modification is to remove the grub from the original oil passage and plug the outlet and inlets in the block to the remote filter (per the figure in post #19). That would convert it back to stock. Then it would about have to be internal if there is still an issue.

[Brian]

As the 'machinist' if he stretched the pressure relief valve spring on the pump

[Lawrie]

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Or put a shim or spacer under it
Lawrie

[Brian]

....because that'll do it!!

[37Flat]

Originally Posted by Brian

As the 'machinist' if he stretched the pressure relief valve spring on the pump

I put in the pressure relief valve and it was new. I also traded out for the old one and still have the problem. Bound to figure it out someday.

[37Flat]

Originally Posted by JSeery

One last thing is to move the oil sensor to the input to the oil galley so you know what is going into the engine. That would be the inlet nearest the center line. Another way to totally eliminate the modification is to remove the grub from the original oil passage and plug the outlet and inlets in the block to the remote filter (per the figure in post #19). That would convert it back to stock. Then it would about have to be internal if there is still an issue.

I'm really leaning towards converting back to stock. I'm going to talk to my mechanic this week and see what we can do, as he did the conversion. I'll let you know what we come up with. Thanks for all the advice.

[Brian]

I'm talking about the relief valve that forms part of the oil pump, not the one situated at front of valve chamber...

[JSeery]

All it takes to revert it back would be to remove the grub in the oil passage and cap off the oil port closest to the centerline on the bellhousing. Should be simple and quick.

[37Flat]

Here’s what we’ve done. Pulled the intake and plugs and the pressure relief valve (wasn’t stuck). Turned over the engine with the starter and you could see oil going into the cavity for the relief valve. Put the cap on the cavity, cranked the engine and the pressure built up to 6#’s and held. Pulled off the cap and saw that the drain hole was functioning properly. Installed the valve, cranked the engine and the pressure pushed 80#’s before I stopped.
General consensus is that the springs - I have 2 - are too strong. They both stickup 1/2” above the lip of the cavity, but I don’t know if that’s normal. Machinist suggested trim a couple of coils of of the weaker one to see if we could get the pressure to stabilize. That’s this weekends project.
Is there a source to purchase light spring, or is trimming the best option? Also , if the procedure and results above suggest any other problem, please let me know.

[Kerk]

I suggest you try to borrow a relieve spring set up from a used engine someone may have in your area and try that . You could also remove the oil filter set up and plug the block where the lines were connected and see what the results are. That should narrow the possible problem down. JMS. kerk.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Kerk

I suggest you try to borrow a relieve spring set up from a used engine someone may have in your area and try that . You could also remove the oil filter set up and plug the block where the lines were connected and see what the results are. That should narrow the possible problem down. JMS. kerk.

Just be sure to remove the grub in the passage way as well or there will only be oil to the rear main!!!!

[flatford8]

To me, his picture in post #12 and the drawing in post #19, look like the lines aren’t run the same. His pic looks like the out to the filter is got his sender in it...Mark
Or, maybe it doesn’t matter.

[hook00pad]

I had a similar experience to 37Flat with oil pressure on my '54 Ford NAA tractor. If I remember correctly, (it was several years ago) I had just finished changing the oil and filter. Upon re-starting, the oil pressure gauge went full-scale in a few seconds and stuck there. I didn't resolve the issue, but continued to use the tractor on a limited basis for several years now. It does burn considerable oil, which might be attributable to too much oil pressure? I'm sure it needs an overhaul, but I wonder about the oil pump relief valve. Does anyone think excessive oil usage can be attributed to too much oil pressure?

I have never serviced the oil pump, and the engine has only been apart once, in the 1972 time frame, to replace a stuck and damaged valve. I also renewed the rings and rod bearings. It ran fine for years, using it mostly for gardening and bush-hogging several acres. I need to rebuild it, but have a later tractor that I use mostly, a '76 Ford 5000 diesel.

[37Flat]

Well, turns out it was the relief valve (front of engine, my oil pump doesn't have one). Decided to trim the spring down, put it back together, cranked it up and the pressure is good and steady. No idea why, but glad it works. Thanks to everyone for all the great information and ideas.

[JSeery]

Sounds good!

[Mike in AZ]

Good to hear you solved it and thanks for posting the cure . Mike