Rear Shackle Install On A '40

[Mart]

pins = shackle pins.
plates = shackle plates.

My advice is basically the same as all the suggestions above.

Knock them in, then bend things until the plate can be inserted over the pins.

Mart.

[19Fordy]

Philip: Here's the email I sent you.
Philip: I posted your photos on your Fordarn thread.

I installed my shackles with the spring bolted in place with the U bolts. I think you could leave the bolts a little loose to allow for movement so as to make the job easier but, if you do, make sure the square head of the grease fitting bolt is properly seated in the cross member.

When installing my shackles I got to the same point as you meaning that the shackle pins would not slide easily into the spring eyes and the spring eye on the housing. It was tight. Frustrating and I didn't want to beat it to death or do something stupid.

At that point, I placed the end a 1 in. dia aluminum bar against the back of the shackle right where the pin is located and whacked it in place a little at a time, alternating from one pin to the other until the shackle was seated. I then installed the shackle plate and bolts. While doing this, the spring spreader was installed but the other end of the spring was left hanging and a floor jack or a bottle jack was placed underneath the banjo center section for support of the rear end. This allows the rear end to pivot a little bit as the shackle pin is driven in. I did one end of the spring and then the other end. You may also want to place a bottle jack under the spring eye so you can move it into position a little bit at a time if needed. Be patient.

When one shackle was done I placed the bottle jack under the other spring eye and raised it into position so I could install the other shackle in the same manner using the aluminum rod and a 3 pound steel mallet. Use a dead blow hammer if you have one.

I knew that the shackle pins would flex enough once the spring eyes were lined up. Plus, with your spring being a little loose, it will also move with the shackle. I tightened the U bolts to 80 foot pounds and used blue loctite on the shackle nuts.

From the photos you sent, I think you will have no trouble if you use the method above. I would not heat anything up. Remember, when you removed the spring the shackles didn't just fall out of the eyes so, in a similar fashion, they won't just "fall in" back in place

Hope this helps. Take your time, use jack stands. WHEN I DID ALL THIS THE REAR WHEELS OF THE CAR WERE OFF THE GROUND AND A JACK WAS UNDER THE CENTER SECTION.

Now, check out the other Fordbarn replies.

[philipswanson]

Spring is still bolted up. Got one side in last night but it is so far out, the plate won't fit. I am afraid I am going to ruin these bushings. Looking in to a 9" swap. Hate this banjo/mono spring set up.

[deuce_roadster]

There will be a lot more challenges to deal with then shackles to put an 9" in there. Converting trans to open driveline, new driveline, new brake lines, e-brake cables, not to mention the expense of narrowing a 9",custom axles, custom springs, spring hangers just to name a few. I would suggest that if these shackles are more then you can deal with you should just hire someone who can do the job. You will certainly need to hire someone to install a 9".

[A bones]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

There will be a lot more challenges to deal with then shackles to put an 9" in there. Converting trans to open driveline, new driveline, new brake lines, e-brake cables, not to mention the expense of narrowing a 9",custom axles, custom springs, spring hangers just to name a few. I would suggest that if these shackles are more then you can deal with you should just hire someone who can do the job. You will certainly need to hire someone to install a 9".

Not to mention the weight of that truck-worthy 9" Ford axle as you tolerate bumps and voids in the roadway. It takes the comfort out of a moderate wheel base car.

[philipswanson]

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Agreed. I would get that done. Still struggling with this damn banjo for two weeks now. I have restored many cars but this is the worst setup I have ever seen. Not one of Ford's better ideas!

[19Fordy]

Philip; Wow! Sure seems like you are encountering unheard of problems. At this point, I would unbolt the spring from the U-bolts and then try to install the shackles. Then, reinstall the spring into the U-bolts and cross member. However, that spring should have some free play and be able to move around before securing it tightly with U-bolts. it's not a precision assembly.

Take a few more photos showing the entire rear end set up and how it looks in your car. I'll post them for you. It should not be that difficult to reinstall those shackles. There must be something else going on. Silly question but, are you using the correct rear spring?

DO NOT install a 9 in rear, especially the much praised Lincoln Versailles. ( 9 inchers are too wide and will require new backspacing. Plus, they are extremely heavy, require installation of a new drive line and will make your car ride like a truck. Very stiff. I know this because my friend did it. Plus, they look too big (ugly) and out of place. You will be opening a whole new can of worms. If you really feel you must change out the rear and driveline, go with an 8 inch.

Easy for me to say but, take a break from what you are now doing and then come back refreshed and less frustrated. Try and regard it as a personal challenge. Others have overcome this and you will too. Is there something inside the cross member causing the spring to not seat properly. Is the center section too high and hits hitting the edge of cross member? Is your spring spreader rubbing against the center section? Has the torque tube moved a tiny bit backward or forward? I realize these are goofy questions but, think, think, think. Could be something very simple like, your spring spreader being maxed out or slipping.
Normally, the spring rests on what looks like a canvass pad to prevent squeaking. I used a piece of .090 alum sheet instead. Send me more photos from many different angles and I'll post them for you. As they said in the 60's, "We shall overcome". Don't give up. It was all together when you took it apart and it will be all together when you put it back together. If I lived near you, I would be glad to hel. Any fordbarners or AACA folks near you?

[Mart]

First line of my first post: "Take the spring off the u bolts".

You haven't done that and are now wondering why you are struggling.

Mart.

[19Fordy]

My vote goes with Mart. Those U-bolt nuts come off pretty easy using a long pipe on the end of a ratchet handle or use an impact wrench. Don't clean out the nuts with a tap.

[A bones]

Sorry to confuse the issue, however my experiences are that a nine inch Ford rear is good for handling gobs of power at the dragstrip or hauling more than 5000 lbs. Anything less, is a waste of fuel and ride comfort. I edited my comment to reflect that I am anti 9".

If you are just driving for pleasure, the banjo will get you there.

Also an 8" may be more appropriately sized, but not much less unsprung weight.

[deuce_roadster]

One thing many of you haven't dealt with is a wagon rear spring. I have, and can attest it can be quite a bit more difficult then a regular passenger car due to the added number of leaves. That said, putting the shackles in can be done. Usually the aftermarket shackle kits are much easier to install then the stockers. I am not sure why in this instance is being so difficult. Maybe because the straps are already connected permanently on one end and dealing with the extra power of the wagon spring?

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

One thing many of you haven't dealt with is a wagon rear spring. I have, and can attest it can be quite a bit more difficult then a regular passenger car due to the added number of leaves. That said, putting the shackles in can be done. Usually the aftermarket shackle kits are much easier to install then the stockers. I am not sure why in this instance is being so difficult. Maybe because the straps are already connected permanently on one end and dealing with the extra power of the wagon spring?

It's all about misalignment. Yes this is the heavier spring with more leaves. It's a bear. Takes two people to even lift it in place and a third to spin the U bolt nuts. I have it bolted up and the shackle installed on the drivers side after spending all day on it. On the other side, not there yet. The problem I am having is the forward half of both bushings wants to push out as you drive or press in the shackle frame. The spreader is heavy duty but stressed to the limit. I am afraid its going to bust out of there if I go much further with it. This is one heck of a nasty job, especially on the wagon. I really appreciate everyone's help! The crescent wrench idea didn't work because the spring has an outer metal jacket that doesn't allow the large crescent to grab anywhere.

[19Fordy]

Philip: "I am having is the forward half of both bushings wants to push out as you drive or press in the shackle frame." Since the rubber bushings on the forward side are being pushed out, would it be possible to insert the the shackle pins through one set of bushings and then squeeze the bushings onto the pins and into the holes on the opposite side?
Other thoughts. It seems that the shackle pins are so tight against the ID of the rubber bushings that all the lubricant is being squeezed out causing binding. IDEA: Try a new lubricant. IDEA: File down the dia. of each pin a few thousands to allow it to slide inside the bushing more easily. IDEA: Ream out the ID of the forward bushings so pin will slide thru. IDEA: Have a helper hold a socket with an extension against the face of the forward bushing at the same time you whack the other side of the shackle. There will be kickback but,it might just work a little at a time. IDEA: Fabricate a tool that will fit around the rear end of the pin and fit against the face of the rubber bushing so that it won't move forward when the shackle is whacked. When you get close you'll have to remove the tool. IDEA: Use brass or oil bushings. That's why I made brass bushings. They fit real tight and don't swell up or disintegrate like the rubber bushings.

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Philip: "I am having is the forward half of both bushings wants to push out as you drive or press in the shackle frame. " Since the rubber bushings on the forward side are being pushed out, would it be possible to insert the the shackle pins through one set of bushings and then squeeze the bushings onto the pins and into the holes on the opposite side?

No that doesn't work because the threaded part of the shackle frames are not on center but rubbing the bushings so hard that they no longer fit in the hole. I have come to the conclusion that the passenger side arm on the axle housing is bent too far to allow proper installation of the shackle. You can see with the naked eye that this is the case. This is also evidenced by the fact that the plates won't fit the threads that are sticking through. My springs are MUCH heavier than the ones in those pictures of a non wagon. Like twice as thick. Now to bend the arm. Guess I need heat after dropping the gas tank.

[19Fordy]

OK. I used MAPP gas from Home Depot when I bent my rear shackle housing just a tad. An oxy-acetylene torch would be quicker as you can concentrate the heat better. Wrap wet rags around your brake drum, lines and backing plate. I heated metal to cherry red, inserted the rod and gently pulled. Don't use a hammer as you want a controlled bend with leverage.
ONE LAST THOUGHT: I wonder if spring would line up if you undid the spring clips that hold the leafs together in a pack. This might give the main leaf more freedom to move into position by itself without being encumbered by the rest of the leafs. I did undo those clips when I restored my OEM spring 43 years ago. Please keep us posted.
ONE MORE LAST THOUGHT. I wonder if you disconnecting the rear radius rods at the front end of the torque tube would allow sufficient movement of the complete rear so that shackles would "line up"? It's only 1 bolt.

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by Mart

First line of my first post: "Take the spring off the u bolts".

You haven't done that and are now wondering why you are struggling.

Mart.

It takes three people to do this. Don't have 3 available this week. That spring is very heavy. Have spent over a week to get it raised this far. Instead I am going to remove both radius bars and try to rotate the differential in a direction to align the axle arms with the spring. Many on this forum told me to not lower it. Time will tell.

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

OK. I wonder if you disconnecting the rear radius rods at the front end of the torque tube would allow sufficient movement of the complete rear so that shackles would "line up"? It's only 1 bolt.

Yes I am going to do this next. I thought of this at the same time you did. Great minds think alike. Only I am going to remove at the rear with the two bolts like I had to on the other side. Did you pull the gas tank when you used the torch?

[deuce_roadster]

When the old shackles were removed was this misalignment immediately present and obvious? Did you replace either axle housing and possibly got a bent one?

I know we are way past this but every banjo rear end I have removed and replaced I put the spring on the rear end outside of the car, rolled it under the car and using a floor jack, jacked the whole thing up, lining up the U joint and then lifting the banjo end to install the spring into the frame crossmember.
Trying to do this under the car I can see is a very difficult thing to do.

[19Fordy]

Yes, I did pull the gas tank but, it was out already. I think if you drain the tank and fill it with water you will be good to go. Let it air out. Leave the gas cap off. I once welded my gas tank after first filling it with water. It was out of the car. Do you have a shut off petcock at your tank? If you don't they are easy to install. I used a radiator pet cock. Also used a fan to blow any fumes and smoke out from under the car. It's a pain, but to be safest, I guess you should remove the tank. But, since it's the pass side, I think you are safe. Removing the two backing plate/radius rod bolts will also work. It's just more work to reinstall them than the front bolt. I think you are well on your way to solving your problem. I never knew the SW spring was such a monster. Hope your bushing aren't chewed up. You will be surprised how easily that spring perch will bend using the rod for leverage. Let it cool in the open air. NO WATER or air hose. Good luck.

[philipswanson]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

When the old shackles were removed was this misalignment immediately present and obvious? Did you replace either axle housing and possibly got a bent one?

I think they were misaligned some because when I took off the old shackles it did pop some even though I had the spring compressed. No I did not change either axle housing. Only sent the L/H side to 4wheeldriveparts for a sleeve to be installed on the bearing flange.