Front Rope Seal (need help)

[BCCHOPIT]

I just replaced my first rope seal and I failed. I pressed the seal in the groove with with a socket and it look to be in all the way. I put the front cover on and the got the pan on but then the front pulley would not slide in. I then pulled the front cover and the pan then slid the pulley on the crank but now I cant get the front cover on. Any help would be very cool
thanks Bill

[BCCHOPIT]

I can take better pics if it will help...

[Tom Wesenberg]

I install the rope into the grooves dry, tap a socket the same size as the pulley into the rope to size it. I then trim a little off the ends if it needs it, but leave enough to allow for the gasket thickness plus some for compression. Then install the pulley, smear a lot of grease on the surface of the rope seal and push the cover down hard as you press it back and get some bolts started. Put a little silicone cement on the rope end and pan gasket end and install the oil pan. Of course the oil pan gasket gets the exact same treatment the cover half of the rope seal gets.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I can take better pics if it will help...

Better pictures won't help the rope seal to fit. lol

Is that a broken pulley I see? Or, are you just using it to size the rope seal?

[BCCHOPIT]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I install the rope into the grooves dry, tap a socket the same size as the pulley into the rope to size it. I then trim a little off the ends if it needs it, but leave enough to allow for the gasket thickness plus some for compression. Then install the pulley, smear a lot of grease on the surface of the rope seal and push the cover down hard as you press it back and get some bolts started. Put a little silicone cement on the rope end and pan gasket end and install the oil pan. Of course the oil pan gasket gets the exact same treatment the cover half of the rope seal gets.

I did not use any grease. I will give that a try.
thanks Bill

[BCCHOPIT]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Better pictures won't help the rope seal to fit. lol

Is that a broken pulley I see? Or, are you just using it to size the rope seal?

Junk pulley....l just using it for size. I sanded a bigger tapper on front of it but it did not help

[Tom Wesenberg]

Also, you don't have to use ANY sealer in the groove. It looks like you have quite a bit of red silicone in there.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I put the front cover on and the got the pan on but then the front pulley would not slide in.

Correct me it I'm wrong but if the pulley just slides in would it not be to loose to hold back the oil?

When I changed the timing gear on my car I left the pulley on and mounted the timing cover and oil pan with new rope seal that I soaked in oil.

[Earle]

I had heard that the rope has to be installed dry (But greased on the running surface, if needed to install the pulley). Then as the rope soaks up oil during use, it swells slightly, increasing the squeeze on the pulley. That's how my engine was assembled and she's dry as a bone - for many, many miles.

Check that the running surface of the pulley has no roughness that would act as an abrasive against the rope and lead to leaks.

[BCCHOPIT]

Thanks for the help guys I will let you know how I make out
Bill

[Kevin - Illinois]

I agree with Tom, don't use any sealer inside the rope seal. Also be sure to clean all of the old rope from the groove. I had some of the old rope stuck in mine and had some difficulty removing it. Dang it I thought I had a pic of mine but I can't find it.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I have found its usually easier to slide the pulley in with the pan off and the cover on. That way you can suck the pan into the seal with the pan bolts. Its a lot easier to put the pan on last, but in the event of a cam gear replacement, you will find times when you are only replacing the cover.

With the cover off, you have to cam the thing over the seal, which can be done but its difficult. In the latter case, I place one bolt in a bore on one end of the cover ( usually the generator side) and run the threads in but not tight. Then I use a drift punch through a bolt hole on the opposite side and pry the cover down over the seal while placing the remaining bolts in their bores starting with the easiest one, which is usually next to the first one. There is the risk of damaging the threads or the cover, so discretion and patience are advised. Getting the rope properly pre- formed is essential.

[V4F]

if your rope is dry , it wont live long . they burn from rotation . i still soak mine in oil first , then install .............. steve

[Mitch//pa]

i soaked mine in oil overnight also i was going by the les andrews book tips. worked out good for me

[MikeK]

You could skip that pesky rope completely and use a modern lip seal. There are different ones available from parts suppliers. I like the seal Bill Stipe shows on his website and sells. There's also a cheaper one that's all rubber and not quite as easy to keep concentric in installation. Either way, set them in a bead of silly cone. I have thousands of drip free miles on the Stipe seal.

Stipe:
http://www.specialtymotorcams.com/pages/products.html
Mike's:
http://www.mikes-afordable.com/miva/...gory_Code=1043


.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by MikeK

You could skip that pesky rope completely and use a modern lip seal. There are different ones available from parts suppliers. I like the seal Bill Stipe shows on his website and sells. There's also a cheaper one that's all rubber and not quite as easy to keep concentric in installation. Either way, set them in a bead of silly cone. I have thousands of drip free miles on the Stipe seal.

Stipe:
http://www.specialtymotorcams.com/pages/products.html
Mike's:
http://www.mikes-afordable.com/miva/...gory_Code=1043


.

I agree, I have used the one piece seals with good success in several engines.

If you do use a rope seal, it must be well pre-lubricated (soaked in oil) and pre formed using a socket of some thing similar. I always install the cover first with the pulley in place and then the pan. I DO NOT try to install the pulley after the cover and pan are in place. Be sure the seal surface on the pully is round and very smooth. I have had good success with this procedure for more then fifty years of working on this stuff.

Some of the rope seals we get today are junk, but there are good ones available.

Thisk about a one piece seal but be sure your pulley seal surface is true, and smooth.

Just my opinion.

Chris

[Russ/40]

I have always had excellent results with the white rope seals. Soak them in oil, push them in the recess of the cover (already installed), do NOT push the seal down with a socket or any other object, just seat it with your fingers. Now push the seal material in from both edges as far as possible. Pack it in from the edges until the ends are the 1/16" proud of the block. With small scissors, clip the frayed ends that you can't get into line with the bulk of the seal. Now put your pan gasket on. Use a high-tac gasket compound ( hylomar Blue ) to hold the pan gasket to the block. I trim the ends of the pan gasket to go right up to the edge and around the rope seal. Now the crank goes in. I install the rope in the pan just like in the cover. I do not cut the length of the front seal. I use Fel-Pro front seals. Just the way I do it, always works for me. JMHO

And yes, have the pulley already installed when the crank goes in.

[redmodelt]

I was told by engine builder NOT to trim the rope seal as it will compress when the pan is bolted down. Oil is your friend when installing them. Good advice to have pulley installed.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I also have one of Bill Stipe's seals in one engine, and the other rubber seal in another. They were easy to install and do not leak.

[Earle]

I defer to more-experienced folks here. My dry installation is running fine so maybe it soaked up enough oil quickly and, along with the installation grease, didn't get burned.

I lucked out.

Soak it first and carry on...

[James Rogers]

First of all, you need to have the pulley in place when you install the covers with the seals in. You will never get the pulley into the seals without a sledge hammer unless you do it this way. The seals are extremely tight and there is not enough room to wack it to drive it on when in the car.

Even out of the car, it would be difficult and have to be driven on.

[BCCHOPIT]

I got it... What a pain it the A$$... When I put by B together I will run the new seal up front. The crank as been machined for the one pc seal for the rear main. I wont this engine in the car and running for next weekend.
THANKS TO ALL... I put it together dry and I will stand the engine on its nose on the stand to let it soak up some oil and I can put some oil on the seal when I put the 2 pc pulley for the engine that is in the car now.
thanks Bill

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Earle

I defer to more-experienced folks here. My dry installation is running fine so maybe it soaked up enough oil quickly and, along with the installation grease, didn't get burned.

I lucked out.

Soak it first and carry on...

I quit soaking the rope seals years ago because it seems to swell the seal and it also makes installing them a bit messy. I install them dry, then smear them with Mystik JT-6 high temp grease. Never had a leak.

[zzlegend]

I have an old motor that i was told was a runner, but we will see. I resealed it and left the pulley on ond installed the seals dry as Tom did. I also just put a light thin coat of grease where it rides on the pulley. Cut the seals almost flush but just a hair longer for comprssion when bolted in place. Installed the timing cover and then the pan.

[BCCHOPIT]

Update...
My car has been on the road 6 weeks as of last Sat. no leeks and I have driven it every day to work all but 5 days in over 6 weeks 240 miles + a week I put it in dry with a little sealer. I did let it sit over night on the engine stand on it nose to help soak up some oil from the pan.
thanks for the input guys drive your car and drive it hard live is short
Bill