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Old 09-12-2017, 01:20 PM   #1
kyleskott
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Default New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Hi everyone. Looking to get into some real classics. Wanted an opinion on what's the pricing on a 1930 Model A Murray. I was told good running condition and body/interior looks clean.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/145769...97140597165717
Thanks for any help!!!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Best to take a look accompanied by a knowledgeable Model A owner. "Good running condition" can cover a spectrum of faults.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

I'm not able to open the facebook link you posted.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Sorry, the link won't work because its a closed group. I posted a screenshot. Thank you!!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Do the doors sag when opened? Fordor sedans have a wood based body and if the wood is bad you have a major problem. I can only get your small pictures and they aRe not large enough to really view the car.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

...
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

That $10,500 asking price is in the ball park. He's not overpriced from what the pictures reveal. Good Luck with your decision.
And Welcome to the barn! Jeff
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Hope these help
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

I posted some better pics. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you for taking the time
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Pics posted
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Why would anyone selling a car post it in a closed group? Interesting front seat adjuster and color.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDupuis View Post
That $10,500 asking price is in the ball park. He's not overpriced from what the pictures reveal. Good Luck with your decision.
And Welcome to the barn! Jeff
I was told there is some rot on front quarter panel and a rust spot on one of the fenders. With that knowledge, is the price still in the ballpark? I can see the rust spot on the back fender- doesn't look like a big deal. Just worried about the rot, even though the pics look clean. Thinking about offering $8k and going from there if it runs well. Any idea how much to restore a rotten quarter panel? Thank you again for the input
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Most folks in the A hobby are DIY so best ask some local body shops about cost to repair rust if you are not able to work on it . 8K is a realistic offer IMHO but in reality the market determines the value. Both ebay and the MAFCA (classified ads) can provide you what folks are asking.

BTW its a wonderful hobby-good luck.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Some thoughts on value.

Assuming you just want a fun reliable to drive play toy and not a points show car.

WOOD. It is a wood frame as you have been warned. Open the doors and see if they are loose. Pull up the carpets and look at the condition of the sills. Go under the car and look at the condition of the sills. The sills are the base frame of the body and what you can easily see.

Mechanicals. Ask questions about who did what. If they show you receipts that the engine was built by a known good engine builder then major plus. If not then assume you will need to get the engine rebuilt at some point. Take the JS with you and if a lot of the car is wrong then assume they did not pay much attention to details in building the car. Is there rust dust coming from the springs, perches or other bolted areas. That indicates stuff the needs to come apart and be fixed.
Look at the front brake levers are they angled forward some (15 degrees)? If it is vertical then you know something is not right.
How is the front axle. Can you see about 1/2 of it when you look from the front. If you can not see the axle and the shackles are pushed way out then you know the spring is bad.
Does it have shocks? Do the shocks actually work?

Driving...
How does it drive. It should feel comfortable to drive at 55 or above. When you stop on the brakes at speed it should stop confidently. Remember it is drum brakes and will take more effort then the 2 toes your modern disk brake car takes.
If the car does not have shocks and does not feel like it is going to jump off the road once you get above 25 MPH then you know the suspension needs to be rebuilt.
How bad does it vibrate. It should not vibrate a lot.
Can you talk to another person in the car while driving. Do not laugh. I know of a professionally rebuilt car that was so loud you could not converse. They professional put used pitted bearings in the tranny.
If it is only a 45 MPH car then you know it needs around $10,000 worth of work to become a safe reliable car. ($6000+ for the engine, a few thousand for brakes plus what ever else you find on the way).

Some people may differ on my fact based comments. They have a right to their opinions. I grew up with A's and they were always run 55+ with stock drive lines.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Your pictures don't really show very much. What does the engine look like? Undercarriage and front end? Shocks, brakes, and springs? Steering play, wiring, tires, glass, and radiator? Etc.

If I were looking for a four door, the price you have mentioned and what pictures you have provided would have me looking closer. However, I would think that given the price, there are some issues that need to be addressed with this car. Try to find out what they could be.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Good Morning Kylescott, even with some rot, paint blemishes etc.... The car is complete.
Hopefully it is an excellent runner. How long has the current owner owned this car?
The car appears from the pictures to be in reasonably good shape. That being stated, it is a Fordor, making it a little more rare, and desirable, if you travel with friends/family.
You first offer is reasonable and fair. Do not insult to current owner with really lowball offers.
All this being said. Have you ever driven an old car?
These old cars take a certain skill to drive. Alot of patience is in order. They do not handle the same as modern cars from the 50's.
As to the cost of repairing the paint/rust. Many of us have resolved ourselves to enjoying our cars age spots/blemishes. Patina is in style!
Just make sure its a good driver.
Good Luck ! Jeff
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDupuis View Post
Good Morning Kylescott, even with some rot, paint blemishes etc.... The car is complete.
Hopefully it is an excellent runner. How long has the current owner owned this car?
The car appears from the pictures to be in reasonably good shape. That being stated, it is a Fordor, making it a little more rare, and desirable, if you travel with friends/family.
You first offer is reasonable and fair. Do not insult to current owner with really lowball offers.
All this being said. Have you ever driven an old car?
These old cars take a certain skill to drive. Alot of patience is in order. They do not handle the same as modern cars from the 50's.
As to the cost of repairing the paint/rust. Many of us have resolved ourselves to enjoying our cars age spots/blemishes. Patina is in style!
Just make sure its a good driver.
Good Luck ! Jeff
Thank you!!!
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Your pictures don't really show very much. What does the engine look like? Undercarriage and front end? Shocks, brakes, and springs? Steering play, wiring, tires, glass, and radiator? Etc.

If I were looking for a four door, the price you have mentioned and what pictures you have provided would have me looking closer. However, I would think that given the price, there are some issues that need to be addressed with this car. Try to find out what they could be.
Thank you!!!
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Most folks in the A hobby are DIY so best ask some local body shops about cost to repair rust if you are not able to work on it . 8K is a realistic offer IMHO but in reality the market determines the value. Both ebay and the MAFCA (classified ads) can provide you what folks are asking.

BTW its a wonderful hobby-good luck.
Thank you!!!
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
Some thoughts on value.

Assuming you just want a fun reliable to drive play toy and not a points show car.

WOOD. It is a wood frame as you have been warned. Open the doors and see if they are loose. Pull up the carpets and look at the condition of the sills. Go under the car and look at the condition of the sills. The sills are the base frame of the body and what you can easily see.

Mechanicals. Ask questions about who did what. If they show you receipts that the engine was built by a known good engine builder then major plus. If not then assume you will need to get the engine rebuilt at some point. Take the JS with you and if a lot of the car is wrong then assume they did not pay much attention to details in building the car. Is there rust dust coming from the springs, perches or other bolted areas. That indicates stuff the needs to come apart and be fixed.
Look at the front brake levers are they angled forward some (15 degrees)? If it is vertical then you know something is not right.
How is the front axle. Can you see about 1/2 of it when you look from the front. If you can not see the axle and the shackles are pushed way out then you know the spring is bad.
Does it have shocks? Do the shocks actually work?

Driving...
How does it drive. It should feel comfortable to drive at 55 or above. When you stop on the brakes at speed it should stop confidently. Remember it is drum brakes and will take more effort then the 2 toes your modern disk brake car takes.
If the car does not have shocks and does not feel like it is going to jump off the road once you get above 25 MPH then you know the suspension needs to be rebuilt.
How bad does it vibrate. It should not vibrate a lot.
Can you talk to another person in the car while driving. Do not laugh. I know of a professionally rebuilt car that was so loud you could not converse. They professional put used pitted bearings in the tranny.
If it is only a 45 MPH car then you know it needs around $10,000 worth of work to become a safe reliable car. ($6000+ for the engine, a few thousand for brakes plus what ever else you find on the way).

Some people may differ on my fact based comments. They have a right to their opinions. I grew up with A's and they were always run 55+ with stock drive lines.
Thank you!!! That is alot of valuable info!!! I know about sagging doors and boards, but your other points will help me a great deal.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

It appears to be a Murray Town Sedan.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:57 AM   #22
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

What you have posted would seem to be a very reasonable price from what I could tell from the pictures. As others have said, a lot depends on what your intentions are for the use of a new acquisition, but from the pictures and the care that appears to have been taken in putting it into this condition by someone earlier, I think that I might be willing to take a chance. There will always be something that could be better, but if you are looking for a nice driving car, this would appear to meet that criteria. I've seen complete but non-running cars that needed virtually everything go for roughly half of what the sellers are asking; but even with this car, I feel certain that there will be things that will become apparent soon after you might acquire this old gentleman. But that would be the case with probably ninety percent of the cars out there. However, I would think that your risk of exposure here might be somewhat minimal. Good luck to you, whatever decision you might make.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

there is a ton of work to do on cars that look nice but have a little rust. look at the shackles on the front and rear springs are they sitting perfect in there? if they look off center they will need replacing. I have a 45er car and have been working away at and contemplating which way the rebuild will go when she starts to let go. is there 4 working round type shocks that is 1600 or so in parts and a lot of cars are just missing all 4. Are you set on a four door? because for the 10 k price i see cars here in michigan that are nice no rust roadsters and coupes and tudors. the best advice i could give is to look at a ton of different cars before you buy one.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Carne View Post
What you have posted would seem to be a very reasonable price from what I could tell from the pictures. As others have said, a lot depends on what your intentions are for the use of a new acquisition, but from the pictures and the care that appears to have been taken in putting it into this condition by someone earlier, I think that I might be willing to take a chance. There will always be something that could be better, but if you are looking for a nice driving car, this would appear to meet that criteria. I've seen complete but non-running cars that needed virtually everything go for roughly half of what the sellers are asking; but even with this car, I feel certain that there will be things that will become apparent soon after you might acquire this old gentleman. But that would be the case with probably ninety percent of the cars out there. However, I would think that your risk of exposure here might be somewhat minimal. Good luck to you, whatever decision you might make.
Thank you
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike657894 View Post
there is a ton of work to do on cars that look nice but have a little rust. look at the shackles on the front and rear springs are they sitting perfect in there? if they look off center they will need replacing. I have a 45er car and have been working away at and contemplating which way the rebuild will go when she starts to let go. is there 4 working round type shocks that is 1600 or so in parts and a lot of cars are just missing all 4. Are you set on a four door? because for the 10 k price i see cars here in michigan that are nice no rust roadsters and coupes and tudors. the best advice i could give is to look at a ton of different cars before you buy one.
Thank you
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

As it has been mentioned, a Town Sedan has a lot of WOOD in the body and doors so check it closely.


That being said, I love my Town Sedan for all it's roominess and comfort. Mine is a Briggs which has slightly wider front doors than the Murray Body so it is a little easier to get my big a$$ feet into.

A lot of good advice writen above.

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Old 09-14-2017, 08:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Went to go see it. Looked pretty good. No says. Inside looked very clean.
Engine pretty clean, converted to have an alternator.
It only gets up to about 40mph and you feel a bit of a bogging down of the engine. How bad is that? Some vibration but you can definitely speak without talking loud at all.
A couple of minor rust spots. Springs felt good.
Big thing I saw was the front grill seemed to be from a different year. The Ford insignia didn't line up perfectly. Will try to include pic
Any more advice or suggestions on what I should give as a bid is appreciated.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Some more pics
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

If the car gets up to 45 and drops after that then the engine has issues (timing, low compression, carb etc.). They should be able to do at least 50-55 easily with a good rebuild. If done correctly they should be able to do 60-65.

Without a head on shot, I can't tell if the rock guard is off or not. the radiator shroud can be changed out easily. Mine is a 30 but dad put on a 31 shroud.

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Old 09-14-2017, 10:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

The "Grill" is an aftermarket accessory item. It appears to be for a '31, not your early '30 (refer to the first picture in post #8). The emblems are in different locations between the two years on the radiator shell so it does not line up.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:54 AM   #31
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Any ideas to what I should offer? The asking was $10,500. Thanks!
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Kyle,
If you haven't bought it you are at a good point right now... let me explain, as you have options.

I've worked on many Model A's for folks and many if not most of them require some major chassis and driveline work to bring them up to snuff. Getting done with a roadster this week and of course the rear axle was broke but it started as that and went to trans, brakes shot, front end, steering, electrical, distributor, carb, and more.

You can see it quickly adds up and before long your at 4K,5K,8K and more.
I haven't seen any underhood pics ( maybe I missed them) and so I know you could probably throw 5K easy at that car to bring it up to snuff.

You have the choice here to keep looking at other options, and drive them.
Taking into your budget.... and what it might cost to put that car or something else into shape you will probably spend more in the 14-16 range to be there. Maybe more if you don't do your own work... And I would say at this point that you would need expert help.

Each one you drive you gain experience and learn. Some drive well, some terrible. The worst "A" I ever drove was a "restored" car someone was selling.
I bought it, but fixed it, and it was then awesome afterwards.

Paint of course is incorrect for that car. that's a factor, I'm sure mechanicals are NOT top notch and will need work.

- With wheels straight ahead, how much steering play is there? If over an inch will need work.

-Look at front brake levers from the side of the wheels, is the lever forward or almost straight. if straight its not a good sign. are the rear brake lever arms loose in the bushings. How does it stop. Screech or slow stop?

-Engine noisy-listen for knocking sounds.

You get the idea.. lots of potential issues and for a novice it can be aggravating and expensive. In my opinion I would go look at as many as you can and you will gain some knowledge doing so. Read Les Andrews mechanical books for an overview and other Model A books like the old "How to Restore your Model A Series".. etc
You will understand how much work it takes to "Restore" one properly and then know what you are looking at.

As Kevin notes many times in his post it's amazing that a well restored car can and will perform at 55-60. Many times guys are afraid past 40 or 45. Too bad as in todays traffic and roads it requires speeds, stopping, and performance at speeds more than that... and you would want you car to be able to and should handle it.

10, 500... I think that's just the beginning. It's probably a $7,500 car in my opinion that is going to require much more to be roadable. And.. as noted the wood is major factor in a 4-door. But then I would make another selection if I was looking. Look at others, don't get hung up on this one, drive, learn, get someone local who is really schooled at "A"'s mechanically to go look at one with you. I do that all the time for guys and wish many had done so before they bought.
Larry Shepard
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

Thank you for taking the time for all of that. Brakes seemed good, engine looked pretty clean and was told the head gasket was replaced last year. Steering was too tight, but like you said, I would need to try another since without power its going to feel tight.
Suspension again seemed solid.
The paint I don't have any info on besides that I like what was chosen, but know well that it's probably not a stock color. The wood looked solid and actually replaced in the cab: no sagging doors, running boards straight, etc...
I'm just curious if its a carb issue or even the timing adjustment on the steering column that could make it faster and not necessarily and engine "issue", but I need an expert for that. Any Long Islanders out here that can help? Thanks again!!!
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:56 PM   #34
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Maybe the owner would do a compression test on it for you. The timing would be easy enough to check.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:24 PM   #35
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my car would go 46 with a blown head gasket per gps. I havent clocked a top speed run since fixing it up. so if it goes only 40 I would worry. it may need more than just a head gasket. my car was free. It was fix it and make grandpa proud or hot rod it and be disowned. If I was buying I would want a a1 engine in it.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

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Last edited by 700rpm; 09-17-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:33 PM   #37
Ernie Vitucci
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Good afternoon...It would be best to speak to the two national clubs and find the closest club to you. Call the President and ask who does most of the serious repair work for the club. If possible, take that person with you to look at the car and also inspect/drive any similar cars that club members might have for sale. A good Model 'A' repair person can drive it with you and make you a list of obvious problems and estimate the cost of repairs to get the car to a good, safe, reliable state to enjoy. If you can watch he/she do the work, you will learn a great deal...Ernie
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:26 PM   #38
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Ernie.....probably the best and friendliest advice given; someone not familiar with all the nuances of a Model A best served with an experienced, helpful owner.....
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

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Originally Posted by Ernie Vitucci View Post
Good afternoon...It would be best to speak to the two national clubs and find the closest club to you. Call the President and ask who does most of the serious repair work for the club. If possible, take that person with you to look at the car and also inspect/drive any similar cars that club members might have for sale. A good Model 'A' repair person can drive it with you and make you a list of obvious problems and estimate the cost of repairs to get the car to a good, safe, reliable state to enjoy. If you can watch he/she do the work, you will learn a great deal...Ernie

Ernie,
very well stated and excellent advice to him. I've had guys fly me to places to inspect a car... good thing. Some worked out, some didn't.

Larry Shepard
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:16 AM   #40
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Good afternoon...It would be best to speak to the two national clubs and find the closest club to you. Call the President and ask who does most of the serious repair work for the club. If possible, take that person with you to look at the car and also inspect/drive any similar cars that club members might have for sale. A good Model 'A' repair person can drive it with you and make you a list of obvious problems and estimate the cost of repairs to get the car to a good, safe, reliable state to enjoy. If you can watch he/she do the work, you will learn a great deal...Ernie
Thank you for the helpful advice. As you can see I'm trying to make a wise decision and not a quick one. Even though someone says its restored, that can mean many things. I know of MAFCA, what is the 2nd club you are referring too? And if anyone knows of a knowledgeable person on Long Island I'd be happy to take the reference. Thank you all for the help.
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:18 AM   #41
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Default Re: New at this. 1930 Model A 3 window Murray

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Thank you for the helpful advice. As you can see I'm trying to make a wise decision and not a quick one. Even though someone says its restored, that can mean many things. I know of MAFCA, what is the 2nd club you are referring too? And if anyone knows of a knowledgeable person on Long Island I'd be happy to take the reference. Thank you all for the help.
MARC is the other club, and Jim Brand is in your area, and he knows Model A's. Jim is also the expert pin striper for Model A's as well as other makes. Pay the man, and he'd even pin stipe your wheelbarrow.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:36 PM   #42
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Good afternoon...The second club is the 'Model A Restorers Club of America'. They are also a great group of people. They sometimes have local clubs quite close to the Model A Ford Club of America's clubs and sometimes they have clubs in totally different places. They have a magazine called 'Model A News' which is well worth receiving just like the 'Restorer' which is put out by the Model A Club of America. Our local club in Arizona is affiliated with both national clubs. They both have technical advisors who you can work with on questions. Almost every local club has a good mechanic who spends lots of time on Model A's. The closest such person to you will be your best bet...Ernie
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:46 PM   #43
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Thanks, Terry. In the 70's/80's I lived on Lapworth Circle near the corner of Adams and Brookhurst. Fountain Valley was sparsely populated at that time. I used to go up Pacific Coast Highway when the sand would blow over the road and all you could do was stay lined up to the phone polls. Ernie
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:38 PM   #44
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Ernie.....a small world! We have lived in Fountain Valley since 1976, and still enjoy it here. Did you used to go to the Saturday morning Derelict Donuts at Adams and Magnolia? Lots of neat cars there still.....
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:18 PM   #45
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Good Evening Terry...I don't remember the donut shop...but I do remember a great local hardware store near the corner of Adams and Magnolia called Park Hardware! I remember the Newland House in Huntington Beach and the Warner Drive in way out on the end of Warner Avenue, if my memory is working this evening. I do still come over once a year or so to spend a night or two on the Queen Mary in Long Beach. She is such a great lady. Ernie
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:59 PM   #46
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Ernie
Would love to see and meet you if you are ever out our way, and I could take you for a ride in Emma, my 1930 Town Sedan.....let me know!
Terry
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:36 AM   #47
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If the steering is tight, the first thing to do is make sure the steering box has lubricant, and be sure to grease all the fittings. There's a world of difference between dry and lubricated steering joints.

About 8 years ago a guy sold his Model A cheap because it died while on tour, and nobody stopped to fix it for him. The buyer had me fix it so he could resell it. It steered terrible, but all the car really needed was to have the very loose wheel bearings tightened by 2 full turns on one side and 3 turns on the other, and adjust the brakes and points. It was a good car after those few simple fixes.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:40 AM   #48
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IMHO the market for Model As is very soft. I had a hard and long time selling a roadster and roadster pickup that were freshly restored and very nice, like new. Lost 1/3+ of my invested $$. You will be ahead $ wise buying a finished car even if you were to get the car for free if you intend to restore it. For example a minimum of $2000 to restore the brakes alone! I paid $4000 for a paint job and I supplied the paint($1500 minimuim) and considered that a bargain. $4-5000 easy on the motor. $2000 on chrome. Parts? Who knows. So $7500+$14500=$22000. You can get a very good 4 door $22k you can enjoy today not 2-3 years minimum in the future. Haven't mentioned interior, $3k+. This counts hundreds of hours of your labor for free. I didn't save the receipts from Model A parts houses. I didn't want to know the total. You want a hobby? Fine, but Model A is not a cheap hobby.

Best question to ask is what condition of a car do you want? Then go buy one. Took me a while to figure that one out. I don't want one in poor mechanical condition. Don't want one with flaking paint and threadbare interior. After 6 restorations I've had enough of being a mechanic, was fun while it lasted.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:42 PM   #49
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heres a car you should look at https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...355/?ref=br_rs
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