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Old 09-12-2017, 07:59 AM   #1
Barber31
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Default Ford tractor engine ?'s

I found a '52 8N for sale. It looks pretty good but the owner says there's water in the oil. My question is I have a spare engine for my Tudor that's running pretty good, so could I swap my model A engine for the tractor engine? I read they are the same but will mine have all the same mounting hole locations? Thanks.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Yup...but why? fix the 8n engine,it had a better power band.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

They are similar but they want fit.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

A fellow from Walkerton ont, area has an 8N with a 302 in it. Been clocked at 87 mph.
To make it official as the fastest 8N, he'd have to take it to the Salt Flats. He not interested in doing that! He knows what he has. The slow moving sign on the back of it, is of little use. Jeff
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Why?, because I'll have it up and running right away compared to storing it and prably losing interest. Right now, I'm at a point of I can take on small quick jobs. I'm not sure I could accommodate a long multi year restoration.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

The 8N is nothing like the A engine.I know the story has gone around for years that they will fit,but the differences are night and day.Ford DID use the 8N engine in a pickup,you would have to drive one to see what a sorry mess that made out of a nice truck.The good thing about the 8N is that they are simple and fast to repair.Lots of parts out there for them,both new and used.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

About the only thing that would interchange between an 8N and a Model A would be the spark plugs (maybe). Totally different engines. They look similar (flat head 4's) but the 8N is dimensionally smaller with a little more than half the displacement and half the HP.

I think there were adapters made back in the day to adapt the Model A to a 9N, 8N, 2N, but I've never seen one.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

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Originally Posted by Keith True View Post
The 8N is nothing like the A engine.I know the story has gone around for years that they will fit,but the differences are night and day.Ford DID use the 8N engine in a pickup,you would have to drive one to see what a sorry mess that made out of a nice truck.The good thing about the 8N is that they are simple and fast to repair.Lots of parts out there for them,both new and used.
Mornin' Bro Keith,
Gentlemen FARMERS around here that have 3 to 5 Acres, have a LOT of Old 8-Ns. Repair & Restoration of them is BIG Business
They should organize a SHOW, here. Some are restored to "HIGH POINTS"!
Friend, Chuck found some OLD homemade tractor, with a Model A engine. A BUNCH gathered & FINALLY got it to run, only to be GREETED by a SNAKE that came out of the BIG SPLIT rear tire
Bill Running
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:45 AM   #9
Keith True
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Dick,even the spark plugs are different.I think the points are the same as flathead V8 in the front mount tractor distributers.I've had a few 8N tractors over the years.I still have two now.They were something in their day,but their day has passed.They only have about 23 HP,and have 120 cubic inches.They are also governed at 2000 RPM.I never saw anything about an adapter to use an A engine in one,though I'd been told stories about it.I would like to see some old ads showing that.I had one with a flathead V8 in it.It was a conversion made by Funk.They also did one using the early 40's flathead six,now that conversion made a nice tractor out of the 8N.The V8 conversion really looks cool,but in the field that flathead six is just a performer.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

The 40 ford pickup 4 banger is a direct swap. Only real change is the fuel pump must be blocked off. Not a popular engine in the pickup though.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Alrighty. Well then I guess I'll pass on it. Thank you for the info.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

The 8N engine is basically half of a flathead V8, or so I have been told.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Here's a tractor with a Model A engine:
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

The 8N tractor is far removed from the Model A or B motor.
For instance, it uses removable sleeves for the piston bores. When I purchased mine, I was able to search the SN and find replacement piston/sleeve assemblies.

Water in the oil is not good. However, it may not be that bad, it could have been from the oil tube open during a rain storm. I does not mean the block is cracked.

When I made the deal for mine, it was supposed to have a couple burnt valves, blown head gasket and the gas tank rusted through. To date, I have replaced the plugs, gaskets for the carb and tightened up the valve bung.

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Old 09-12-2017, 02:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

I think it would be a rare thing for an 8N engine to take on water from an internal crack.They are just not known for it.They are not known for blowing head gaskets either,but I have seen a few of them that had the gasket rot out and dump water in.I have one that was making water,the owner said the oil would get milky after a couple of weeks.The tractor was stored indoors but we found out he was starting it,driving it to the mailbox 700 feet away,and parking it again.After stopping those 3 minute runs the tractor stopped making water.I've had it now for about 15 years and the oil in it is the oil that was in it when I bought it.I won't start it unless I am going to use it for an hour or so.I used to do a lot of 9N/2N/8N work.In my shop I have a couple new sets of sleeves and pistons,all size mains and rods,some new rods,new valve trains,new manifolds,a couple of planed heads,one new crankshaft,new wiring harnesses,and dozens of other new parts.People here are not repairing them like they used to.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Model A bore and stroke: 3 7/8" X 4 1/4". 200.5 cubic inches. 8N bore and stroke: 3 3/16" X 3 3/4" 119.5 cubic inches. 8N pistons, rings, pins, valves, guides. springs and lifters interchange with 239 flat head V8. Model A? Nope!
Where do people get such silly ideas that an A is the same as an 8N? Even worse, why would anyone repeat such nonsense? It betrays an alarming lack of concern for accuracy.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlG View Post
The 8N engine is basically half of a flathead V8, or so I have been told.
Carl,

Conversely, Ford's first V-8's were said to be two 4 bangers mated. I always questioned that since, I believe, the early V-8's had three exhaust ports on each side instead of four like the 4 bangers.

Bill,

There is guy in the Central Valley that found and restored a Lamborghini Tractor. Lamborghini started out making tractors and farm equipment in Italy. The story is that Enzo Ferrari wouldn't sell him a race engine so he decided to build his own super cars with his own engines.

David Serrano
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Actually the story I've heard repeated most of all is that the Fordsons used the T engine.I've owned a couple of Fordsons too.I had one on dual wheel.hard rubber tires,and that one was strictly gas,not meant to run on kerosene at all.It was for pulling planes around in a hanger and they didn't want the smoke from the kero sooting the place up.I had one on tracks too.Full tracks,not over the tire add-ons.That was called a Traxon.It was mean and could hurt you.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

The biggest problem with an 8n is they won't hardly pull a settin hen off her nest. For a field cultivator the best thing is to tie a couple of tomcats by the tail and pull them around the field. Anything more and the tractor won't pull it.....I grew up with two cylinder Poppin Johnies so heard lots of stories about anything that wasn't the real tractor color...JD green!
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s




yeah you guys are right,why mess with a model a engine?





the N series boys blew right past it anyway
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:37 AM   #21
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

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Originally Posted by midgetracer View Post
The 40 ford pickup 4 banger is a direct swap. Only real change is the fuel pump must be blocked off. Not a popular engine in the pickup though.
Had a '40 Pickup I restored from an engine fire, GREAT, SMOOTH truck, with a 4:44 rear end & doesn't go very FAST. Drag Racers would pay BIG bucks for those gears. The '37 V-8 60s had the SAME gears!
Bill Slow
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ford tractor engine ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith True View Post
Actually the story I've heard repeated most of all is that the Fordsons used the T engine.I've owned a couple of Fordsons too.I had one on dual wheel.hard rubber tires,and that one was strictly gas,not meant to run on kerosene at all.It was for pulling planes around in a hanger and they didn't want the smoke from the kero sooting the place up.I had one on tracks too.Full tracks,not over the tire add-ons.That was called a Traxon.It was mean and could hurt you.
Just to clarify your post: The Fordson engine was NOT the T engine (in case anyone might think that story is true). Totally different. The only thing the same was the flywheel magneto ignition system.
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