The Ford Barn

36tbird · 03-07-2014, 09:47 AM

Not a flathead, but hands on mechanic guys may get a kick out of this.

http://pixelbark.com/13045/how-the-d...bustion-engine

Reminds me of the post a while back about the engine without a cam, valves driven by computer controlled actuators. Anyone know if more has come from that?

Old Henry · 03-07-2014, 10:37 AM

This reminds me of the old rotary piston aircraft engines where the whole block and pistons spun around the crankshaft. Never understood how those worked but are fascinating to me as is this duke engine. It just doesn't' seem like it would produce the low end torque that a conventional engine does.

VeryTangled · 03-07-2014, 10:48 AM

Amazing, it doesn't have a spark plug for each cylinder!

Anyone know what the application is? Automobiles or marine or what?

-VT/JeffH

More on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_engine

Ross F-1 · 03-07-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Anyone know what the application is?

Vacuuming money out of investor's wallets, I would guess...

I don't see any hope of the seals at the top of those cylinders holding out for a hundred thousand miles. I am impressed that they actually have a working prototype, that's more than many of the hundreds of alternative engines can claim.

ford38v8 · 03-07-2014, 12:22 PM

That's fascinating! The unique problems to overcome must keep them awake nights! This being the 3rd generation, they may be ready for a production decision by about the 10th generation!

Binx · 03-07-2014, 12:54 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

This is really nothing more than adapting the design of a Vickers rotary variable-volume hydraulic pump.

Lonnie

Ross F-1 · 03-07-2014, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Binx

This is really nothing more than adapting the design of a Vickers rotary variable-volume hydraulic pump.

Lonnie

Not a whole lot different than a swashplate A/C compressor either.

Jack E/NJ · 03-07-2014, 01:57 PM

Which do you like better? Jack E/NJ

29AVEE8 · 03-07-2014, 02:27 PM

Would love to see the valvetrain.

Ross F-1 · 03-07-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29AVEE8

Would love to see the valvetrain.

There is none, it is piston-ported like a 2-stroke.

36tbird · 03-07-2014, 02:43 PM

"Would love to see the valvetrain."

The gist I got out of it was no valvetrain. Looks like the pistons draw in fuel as they pass a cylinder with an intake port and expel the spent gases when they pass a cylinder with the exhaust port.

Shadetree · 03-07-2014, 02:59 PM

Looks like the mechanical advantage of the power stroke of the pistons would be lessened on this engine versus a crankshaft engine, generating less torque. Too, it looks like it would require more torque on the compression stroke than a conventional engine.

sidevalve8ba · 03-07-2014, 03:00 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that basically the same setup as the swash-plate compressors used on modern day auto air conditioning? Sure looks like it to me.

Jack E/NJ · 03-07-2014, 03:22 PM

Yeah, I think so except the Duke plate is the stator while the block with the pistons is the rotor. Like Lou suggests, porting seems similar to the Wankel rotary.

Jack E/NJ

jimTN · 03-07-2014, 05:22 PM

Sort of also using the sleeve valve engine concept in a different manner combined with modern rotary design

Rowdy · 03-07-2014, 05:36 PM

Another variation of the radial engine as stated above. Wonder whatever happened to the cam engine being experiemented with in the late 80's. It was somewhat aproved by the FAA and then faded into obscurity. Rod

Binx · 03-07-2014, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Which do you like better? Jack E/NJ

Personally, I'm a big fan of the stationary crank WWI radials with the entire engine spinning with the prop. Full throttle all the time. Kill switch to slow it down. That must have been a handful!!

Lonnie

Lawrie · 03-07-2014, 08:55 PM

That looks like something flathead Ted would be involved with.
There is a diesel engine in the Motat museum that looks similar.
Lawrie

Jack E/NJ · 03-07-2014, 10:05 PM

The gnome & a few other rotaries at Glenn Curtiss museum, hport, ny

rotorwrench · 03-08-2014, 07:54 PM

That rotary wobble plate is going to have a lot of stress on it for the long haul since the power stroke won't be too equal with the opposite strokes. As was mentioned before, It's hard to figure how well the cylinder barrel will seal against the valve plate and not score the hell out of it. It's like an old Frigidaire compressor on steroids. If they used any more than 5-cylinders, it would be as big as a 55 gallon drum.

03-07-2014, 09:47 AM	#1
36tbird Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: nw SanAntonio, TX Posts: 939	Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Not a flathead, but hands on mechanic guys may get a kick out of this. http://pixelbark.com/13045/how-the-d...bustion-engine Reminds me of the post a while back about the engine without a cam, valves driven by computer controlled actuators. Anyone know if more has come from that?

03-07-2014, 10:37 AM	#2
Old Henry Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 5,762	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it This reminds me of the old rotary piston aircraft engines where the whole block and pistons spun around the crankshaft. Never understood how those worked but are fascinating to me as is this duke engine. It just doesn't' seem like it would produce the low end torque that a conventional engine does. __________________ Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

03-07-2014, 10:48 AM	#3
VeryTangled Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: (Not far enough...) Outside of DC Posts: 3,387	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Amazing, it doesn't have a spark plug for each cylinder! Anyone know what the application is? Automobiles or marine or what? -VT/JeffH More on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_engine Last edited by VeryTangled; 03-07-2014 at 11:11 AM.

03-07-2014, 12:22 PM	#5
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it That's fascinating! The unique problems to overcome must keep them awake nights! This being the 3rd generation, they may be ready for a production decision by about the 10th generation! __________________ Alan

03-07-2014, 12:54 PM	#6
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) This is really nothing more than adapting the design of a Vickers rotary variable-volume hydraulic pump. Lonnie

03-07-2014, 01:57 PM	#8
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Which do you like better? Jack E/NJ

03-07-2014, 02:27 PM	#9
29AVEE8 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Redlands, CA Posts: 148	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Would love to see the valvetrain. __________________ Ignorance of the laws of physics does not mean they do not apply to you.

03-07-2014, 02:43 PM	#11
36tbird Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: nw SanAntonio, TX Posts: 939	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it "Would love to see the valvetrain." The gist I got out of it was no valvetrain. Looks like the pistons draw in fuel as they pass a cylinder with an intake port and expel the spent gases when they pass a cylinder with the exhaust port.

03-07-2014, 02:59 PM	#12
Shadetree Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cottageville, WV Posts: 1,535	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Looks like the mechanical advantage of the power stroke of the pistons would be lessened on this engine versus a crankshaft engine, generating less torque. Too, it looks like it would require more torque on the compression stroke than a conventional engine. __________________ Son, you will never blow an engine up in high gear.

03-07-2014, 03:00 PM	#13
sidevalve8ba Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 842	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that basically the same setup as the swash-plate compressors used on modern day auto air conditioning? Sure looks like it to me.

03-07-2014, 03:22 PM	#14
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Yeah, I think so except the Duke plate is the stator while the block with the pistons is the rotor. Like Lou suggests, porting seems similar to the Wankel rotary. Jack E/NJ

03-07-2014, 05:22 PM	#15
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Sort of also using the sleeve valve engine concept in a different manner combined with modern rotary design

03-07-2014, 05:36 PM	#16
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it Another variation of the radial engine as stated above. Wonder whatever happened to the cam engine being experiemented with in the late 80's. It was somewhat aproved by the FAA and then faded into obscurity. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

03-07-2014, 08:55 PM	#18
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,215	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it That looks like something flathead Ted would be involved with. There is a diesel engine in the Motat museum that looks similar. Lawrie

03-07-2014, 10:05 PM	#19
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it The gnome & a few other rotaries at Glenn Curtiss museum, hport, ny

03-08-2014, 07:54 PM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: Ain't a Flathead, but gear heads may like it That rotary wobble plate is going to have a lot of stress on it for the long haul since the power stroke won't be too equal with the opposite strokes. As was mentioned before, It's hard to figure how well the cylinder barrel will seal against the valve plate and not score the hell out of it. It's like an old Frigidaire compressor on steroids. If they used any more than 5-cylinders, it would be as big as a 55 gallon drum.