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Old 01-22-2021, 08:18 PM   #1
BobR35
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Default '35 Radiator / water out the tube

So over the past 2 months I've been dealing with and trying to figure out the problem with coolant running out the overflow at the top of the radiator. The problem is that after the engine warmed up to operating temp and being in traffic, the coolant would push out the overflow tube. If I were moving, regardless of speed, everything is good. I replaced the water pumps with new high flow pumps just as a maintenance and peace of mind thing. I then replaced the 160 tt with 180, no change. I even tried running two thermostats on each side, the 180 at the bottom and 160 at the top, just to see if this would regulate/slow up the flow. Boy, that was a waste of time. The temp ggs went nuts, up - down-up-down. So then I decided to pull the radiator and have it reconditioned. Yesterday I installed the "new" radiator and decided to install washers inside and at the top of each hose, where the radiator attaches to slow down the flow. I used 3/4" I.D. washers and drove the car on a short 80 mile trip to test this out. I used hose clamps just below the washers to hold them in place. The outside temp reached 78* and the engine ran at 180* steady. I also engaged traffic in town. This is where the problem was, after a run and then in traffic at idle, the TT's would be wide open and coolant would spew out the tube. Well, problem solved!! No water loss all day. It seem that the flow going into the radiator over took the tank and pushed out the water. I do believe that the radiator being in good health did help a small amount. The inside condition of the radiator wasn't bad, 6 tubes were restricted and one totally closed. But it works as it should now and I'm happy!
So just my input after researching and trying to figure this mystery out I wanted to share with anyone experiencing similar issues. Hope it helps someone....
2200 miles in 7 weeks so far and lovin the ride!!
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

It sounds like you made two changes at the same time ("reconditioned" the radiator and installed restrictors). Unfortunately, when you do that, you don't really know what solved the problem (if it is really solved).

My money is on the radiator. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Do u have a stock factory type radiator ? I do and the overflow tube exits at the bottom of the radiator!! I think I need an overflow tank. Thanks. Email me at toptenhotrod@yahoo.com ����www.jalopyjournal.net♂️��
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

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Originally Posted by Moesby View Post
Do u have a stock factory type radiator ? I do and the overflow tube exits at the bottom of the radiator!! I think I need an overflow tank. Thanks. Email me at toptenhotrod@yahoo.com ����www.jalopyjournal.net♂️��
My radiator is original and the tube runs from the center of the top tank down the front and exits at the bottom of the radiator. My conclusion is that an overflow tank doesn't solve the water loss but just collects the overflow. You still loose coolant.
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:01 PM   #5
BobR35
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
It sounds like you made two changes at the same time ("reconditioned" the radiator and installed restrictors). Unfortunately, when you do that, you don't really know what solved the problem (if it is really solved).

My money is on the radiator. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.
Totally understand your statement and I also think the radiator helped but the info from the radiator guy was that he didn't think there was enough interference built up inside the radiator to make any difference. The radiator is 4 rows deep and it's hard to figure out why this situation even exists. I'm sure it made some difference but I also know that the input from the pumps does cause an issue with building up pressure just from reading other posts in this forum. It seems that the 3/4" washer restriction made all the difference. Thanks for your reply and I appreciate all input.
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

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Originally Posted by BobR35 View Post
So over the past 2 months I've been dealing with and trying to figure out the problem with coolant running out the overflow at the top of the radiator. The problem is that after the engine warmed up to operating temp and being in traffic, the coolant would push out the overflow tube. If I were moving, regardless of speed, everything is good. I replaced the water pumps with new high flow pumps just as a maintenance and peace of mind thing. I then replaced the 160 tt with 180, no change. I even tried running two thermostats on each side, the 180 at the bottom and 160 at the top, just to see if this would regulate/slow up the flow. Boy, that was a waste of time. The temp ggs went nuts, up - down-up-down. So then I decided to pull the radiator and have it reconditioned. Yesterday I installed the "new" radiator and decided to install washers inside and at the top of each hose, where the radiator attaches to slow down the flow. I used 3/4" I.D. washers and drove the car on a short 80 mile trip to test this out. I used hose clamps just below the washers to hold them in place. The outside temp reached 78* and the engine ran at 180* steady. I also engaged traffic in town. This is where the problem was, after a run and then in traffic at idle, the TT's would be wide open and coolant would spew out the tube. Well, problem solved!! No water loss all day. It seem that the flow going into the radiator over took the tank and pushed out the water. I do believe that the radiator being in good health did help a small amount. The inside condition of the radiator wasn't bad, 6 tubes were restricted and one totally closed. But it works as it should now and I'm happy!
So just my input after researching and trying to figure this mystery out I wanted to share with anyone experiencing similar issues. Hope it helps someone....
2200 miles in 7 weeks so far and lovin the ride!!
You need to let as MUCH coolant flow though the radiator as possible.
Why did you put on high flow pumps and want to slow the flow? You
need a pressure cap and a recovery bottle. As the engine cools and as
the temperature gets to 170 a vacume is formed and sucks the coolant
from the bottle back into the radiator this where the pressure cap comes
in. The overflow tube needs come out of the filler neck. Take a look at
the top plate in my radiator and the tubes, I did not polish them this was
done by the pressure and flow of the non restricted Skips high flow turbine
impeller pumps over a period of time. Don't use stats until it runs cool.
Stats do nothing to cool an engine just make it run hotter. Make sure you
get stats with large flow openings or they will restrict the flow.
Robertshaw stats have large flow openings. A better fan and even a shrould
do even better. My 39 pickup ran at slightly high Idle at a V/8 show a
number of years ago on a day that was over 100 degrees for over 6
hours and never got to 180 degrees. I went to lunch and let it run and
Ken from Conneticut watched it for me. If I raced it up a little the temp
came down. G.M.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0028.jpg (33.9 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0021.jpg (35.3 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg 39 PU fan _ shroud jpg.jpg (80.7 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg Impellers 36 TYPE COMPARE OLD _ NEW.jpg (26.3 KB, 34 views)
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Last edited by G.M.; 01-23-2021 at 12:21 AM. Reason: changes
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Old 01-23-2021, 01:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Something doesn't make sense here. The big improvement was noticed at low speed in traffic. Pumps aren't pushing much water then, seems the restrictors shouldn't make a difference. One thing not mentioned in the original post so worth bringing up: if you fill the radiator to the top leaving no room for expansion, it will overflow when hot, usually occurs in slow traffic.

Also my two cents on recovery tanks:
I don't get the logic of a recovery tank. I don't think there is any purpose to it.

Modern cars use a remote recovery tank because their radiators use the entire space available for the fin tube heat exchanger. Then a remote expansion/recovery tank is necessary.

Our tall radiators have an expansion tank built-in to the radiator, the couple inches above the heat exchanger. Having a second remote expansion/recovery tank serves no purpose. It will allow you to fill the radiator to the top, but that extra quart of water filling the expansion tank above the heat exchanger doesn't do anything to help the cooling system. After the engine is up to temperature that extra water is just sitting in the remote recovery tank, where it is not doing anything.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

The restrictor washers are not needed and only serve to restrict flow which defeats the purpose of having high flow pumps. You need as much flow as possible not less. Dont fill the radiator top tank right up but only a couple of inches above the top of the tubes which leaves room for expansion of the coolant. You dont have a problem at all. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

I have a repro radiator. It will empty itself to well below the top of the tubes, even though it runs very cold. I can't see the overflow in the top tank, I think it is too low so that the turbulent water from the waterpump gets into it. On my 4 banger Fords the overflow sits just under the rad cap. My solution has been to put a rubber tube on the output with a restrictor for the moment, long term I want one of Skip's low pressure valves. Then I'll fit thermostats.
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Old 01-23-2021, 07:31 AM   #10
BobR35
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Good morning to all of you and I want to respond after reading all of your information and input which is greatly appreciated. It only shows how much variety of thoughts and mechanical knowledge for design and engineer and improvement there is out there. Let me answer and clarify what I've done and why, first off, I believe that the water flow needs to be free and flow constant across the radiator to cool the engine when it reaches its operating temperature which in this case is 180. The problem that I had was at full operating temperature the thermostats are wide open and while sitting in traffic the water was pumping too fast and not being able to flow through the radiator cores quick enough. The engine temp would raise somewhat and then cool immediately when I started to move. The most amount of coolant I would lose as about five to six quarts and the engine would perform fine, temperature etc. I just found that losing all that coolant wasn't necessary due to the flow of water being too much. When I put high flow pumps in I thought it was a lack of flow to start with and there was no vacuum to draw the water and that's why I went to the high flow pumps. When the radiator was reconditioned and I was told that it probably wasn't the issue I began to think about some way to restrict the flow because when I did try dual thermostats the water loss didn't occur however the fluctuation and temperature was too often and too much. So, I decided to try this method with restrictor washers and it appears to be working. Mind you, summer is coming in a few months here and the temperature will be significantly hotter and I will have to reevaluate everything to see if I keep this setup or move on to something else, each climate condition around the country calls for different setups and I'm sure all of yours work for you. With this exchange of information is how we get the job done to help one another. I will report back to let you know how this works. I do appreciate and value all for your input as I continue to lean on this site for advice.
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Old 01-23-2021, 09:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

The washers are an old time "trick".


You want as much flow thru the radiator as possible. Do you have a temp gun?? My flathead drops about 35+ from top of rad to the bottom, NO stats.

A recovery tank is just that, it recovers fluid that's overflowed. In a closed pressurized system (doesn't have to be much), after shutdown, as it cools, the liquid gets sucked back into the radiator. JMO
Paul in CT
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

I have NEVER found high flow pumps to make any difference in operating temperature in any vehicle that has been properly restored. Key word? Properly.
Also, as Tubman has wisely pointed out: MAKE ONE CHANGE AT A TIME.

If the radiator is in fact clean, it may be as simple as you are installing
too much water and / or coolant.

Many believe that one must push as much volume through the radiator as quickly as possible. Keep in mind, it (water) must be in there long enough for the radiator to do its job.
If one finds that pushing more coolant (quicker) makes a big difference, there are other underlying issues.

I tend to work through issues like this (clients cars) very methodically. Again, one thing at a time.
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Old 01-23-2021, 11:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Easy test. Install the thermostats again and see what happens.
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Old 01-23-2021, 11:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Makes no sense to say you have too much flow at idle and not at higher speeds.
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Old 01-23-2021, 12:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

If Henry Ford and his engineers had figured that "Washers" worked as well (or nearly as well) as thermostats in these cars, the old cheapskate would have used them.
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Old 01-23-2021, 01:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by koates View Post
The restrictor washers are not needed and only serve to restrict flow which defeats the purpose of having high flow pumps. You need as much flow as possible not less. Dont fill the radiator top tank right up but only a couple of inches above the top of the tubes which leaves room for expansion of the coolant. You dont have a problem at all. Regards, Kevin.
With a pressure cap and a recovery bottle you can fill the
radiator up into the filler neck. More coolant, better cooling.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

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More coolant, better cooling.
Pressurizing may help some, but seems to me extra coolant sitting in a recovery tank isn't going to help. Please read the "My two cents on recovery tanks" part of post #7. Then let me know what I am missing. Thanks.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

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Pressurizing may help some, but seems to me extra coolant sitting in a recovery tank isn't going to help. Please read the "My two cents on recovery tanks" part of post #7. Then let me know what I am missing. Thanks.
I am not pressurizing the system at less than 4 lbs. 4 lbs is the cap
ratting not the pressure in the system. Most water pumps slip and
churn air into the mixture. Air does not cool like water. When a stock
pump is run in a closed circuit water pump test machine there is a
BIG release of air when the tank cap is opened. Just a faint whisper
with skips new turbine impellers. G.M.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

Dont fill the radiator above the tubes.

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Old 01-24-2021, 01:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: '35 Radiator / water out the tube

When I first got my '46 Coupe, 59AB, I changed all the fluids. When I refilled the radiator, I brought the fluid level right up into the neck, just below the rad cap (4 psi) seat. I took the car for about a half mile return run, and when I got back in the garage, there was coolant leaking. My first thought was a leaking hose, as I had replaced all four. When I opened the hood, the coolant was coming from the overflow. After reading several posts here, and on the EFV8 site, I learned to fill just above the tubes. No overflow ever since I did that.
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