Resizing lug nut holes

[Joe K]

Well, thanks to the good eye of a Fordbarn member (who saw my lament on Amherst, NH swap show) I am now the proud owner of four "needful of restoration" wheels and tires in 19" 1930-31 style (no rolled edge)

As these are intended for primarily "roll-around" service (they may morph into parade car wheels) I don't intend to spend a lot of time or money on them. I'll likely do the electrolytic method of rust conversion and give them a thick coat of paint (or two or three.)

As luck would have it, one of these wheels is head and shoulders better condition than the others - and as luck would have it the lugnut holes on this one are "wallered out" and may be usable with washers - but washers are not my preference. (and may not even be allowed in a vehicle safety inspection.)

Has anyone done weld build-up and re-machining the holes? I can see issues with keeping the hole centers where they should be.

For me welding shouldn't be a problem as I have a very nice Lincoln SP128 Mig which is a dandy tool.

I would give it a try but for that maintaining hole center thing...

I hope someone has done this and can offer some pointers?

Joe K

[redmodelt]

I asked on a Model T forum about 26/27 wire wheels a very similar question, bottom was yes you could but for what you plan on using them for I would use washers and look for a better set.

[Joe K]

I think a solution could be to use steel "sleeves" over a ford model A hub/brake drum lug bolts - and weld the sleeves into the wheel?

Then the wheel will slip off the lug-nuts and the sleeves could be ground flush and the center hole used to locate a countersink to put the cone back for the lug nuts.

Just thinking out loud...

Joe K

[larrys40]

Joe,
I've fixed my share of wheels.. I usually look for better ones if the lug holes aren't good... to much of a pain to fix, however, I have salvaged a few that were perfect in all the other areas except for a hole or two.

You can weld them but I wouldn't use a sleeve as you don't want the sleeve to bottom out on the hub/drum... If you have a bad spot or split in the lug hole area you can weld it.... but it will have to be milled to shape or carefully ground to round.
You need the correct taper bit to mill it. and the wheel must be clamped down tight. Mig weld is harder than the base metal of the wheel and it may want to drift on you and end up with a less than perfect result. I'm sure there's someone on here who is stellar and may have a better process... if so input is appreciated!

when shopping for wheels I always carry a lug nut in my pocket and use it to test the holes. If they are not round or the lug nut protrudes past the taper it is not a good wheel candidate then... so on to the next one. All holes should be checked.

Check for cracked spokes, hub cracks..etc.
Larry

[Al 29Tudor]

Considering that the lugs actually carry the load of the car and are rather critical in location, how do you plan to get the correct bolt hole location and tolerance?
Al

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Wheels can be repaired easily enough with some tooling & fixturing. Without getting into boring details, I'll just answer your question. When welding the hole, use a brass dowel to MIG-weld around. My cutter either came from MSC or ENCO and it is an off-the-shelf cutter that I determined the angle by looking at the print. I will try to look at the print tomorrow and give you the taper angle. To get the proper spacing, use a rotary table on the Mill. The centerline is 5.500".

[Mike V. Florida]

Many have used lug nut washers,

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wheels can be repaired easily enough with some tooling & fixturing. Without getting into boring details, I'll just answer your question. When welding the hole, use a brass dowel to MIG-weld around. My cutter either came from MSC or ENCO and it is an off-the-shelf cutter that I determined the angle by looking at the print. I will try to look at the print tomorrow and give you the taper angle. To get the proper spacing, use a rotary table on the Mill. The centerline is 5.500".

Someone with a lathe could make a lug nut shape out of brass and one could weld from the back eliminating the need for a tapered cutter?

[H. L. Chauvin]

From Years Of Model A Owner Salesmanship Experiences:

Nothing like Model A owners offering to show and offer for sale ..... "anywhere" ............ freshly "painted" Model A wheels, Model A "painted" rear axles, freshly "painted" Model A engine blocks ..... where thick paint hides cracks .... and contrary to popular Model A beliefs ...... "Hell" probably has its share of quite a few so-called honest Model A owners blowing Ahooga Horns 24/7 trying to seek repentance for their selling pure cracked and worn out "junk" .......... and trying to avoid these intense flames.

Please, just be careful of freshly painted 80+ year old Model A items for sale.

[springerpete]

I am interested in the picture Mike V posted of lug nut washers. I have some but they do not look as hefty as the ones he shows. Is this an illusion ? Who sells these ? Thanks, Bill

[H. L. Chauvin]

Just bought (23) that are recommended by some to protect newly powder coated & newly painted steel Model A wheels at lug nuts.

At least three (3) places have these stainless steel cone-shaped lug nut washers, i.e., Snyder's & Bert's w/part no. #A-1012-W & Bratton's w/part no. #1080.

[redmodelt]

We remove the powder coating from the lug holes before putting the wheels on a car. Keeps the coating from chipping and give full support to the lug nut.

[H. L. Chauvin]

In reference to reply #12:

"We remove the powder coating from the lug holes before putting the wheels on a car. Keeps the coating from chipping and give full support to the lug nut."

Had a similar experience with a powder coated aluminum fan where powder coating wore off under the steel fan nut after a few hundred miles and the fan began to rattle on the tapered shaft. Removed powder coating and provided a thin steel washer under fan nut so fan nut would not eat up the softer aluminum fan material.

Also appears that new powder coating on newly powdered coated wheels will not hold up to the compression provided with lug nuts and will not give full support to lug nuts after a few hundred miles.

What would be method(s) to neatly remove powder coating from recessed conical wheel lug nut seats?

[Joe K]

Another respondent (pm) suggested aftermarket lug nuts which are used by the rod crowd. These apparently a 1" hex with full taper section underneath.

As I have intimated these wheels/tires might morph into a parade vehicle (our 4th of July Parade includes antique vehicles and is held at the end of my street.) While officialdom in our area sort of looks past antique vehicles used in an "unofficial role" such as parades, it might make sense to at least have the vehicle inspected (Insurance would demand it before any liability claim would be considered.)

Our local inspection is curious. The folks at the shop have NO sense of what mechanical brakes are or can do, and have no mental "bench marks" to judge the car for safety or even completeness. The last inspection I overheard a discussion between the manager and the tech where the tech was complaining he didn't know what to inspect on the car. "Don't worry" the manage said to him "just put a sticker on it and don't worry."

The tech would never know oversized nuts if he saw them, even if they differed between wheels.

Joe K

[monto]

Inspection not required on pre-1949 vehicles.
FYI; you may find a few 19" wheels at the dragway Sunday.

[Keith True]

Inspection is not required on cars now in N.H.when they reach 60 years old.It moves up every year.Right now we no longer have to inspect 1957 cars.Cars registered as antiques between 40 and 60 need an inspection every two years.Antiques between 25 and 40 need it every year.Vehicles have to be in stock configuration under this law.The pre-49 law is the first version of backing off the inspection requirements.A lot has been added to it since.The N.H.DMV website can be horrid to navigate and get all the facts.

[monto]

Thank you for the update -- haven't been into DMV website for some time.
('horrid'- I agree!)

[Joe K]

Again thanks for the update - and would explain much of the "official oversight" I've seen relative to certain vehicles in the parade - which I had previously put to "friend of the police chief" status.

In many ways we're still a small town attitude here.

Sorta nice, actually.

Joe K