Timing

[JBohannon]

I have timed my A without much problem. I was a little suprised how hard it was to turn engine over with even the plugs out. I could not turn just the crankshaft pulley. I had to use the fan. Is this normal. Joe B.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by JBohannon

I have timed my A without much problem. I was a little suprised how hard it was to turn engine over with even the plugs out. I could not turn just the crankshaft pulley. I had to use the fan. Is this normal. Joe B.

Joe,
Chief always said, "The easiest way is the best way if it does the job properly!" Since your engine turns a little hard, maybe that's a good sign that it's not a "loosey-goosey" old WORN out chunk of iron! Bill W.

[RonC]

A couple of common reasons why some may have trouble hand cranking the engine could be misalignment of the engine transmission assembly with the frame or worn crank nut or crank handle.

[Franchise_24]

Thanks for all the good info from everyone. We are going to try to time it on Sunday and I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[Mort]

The crank is a little hard to turn normally but if you do it a little at a time (slowly) the compression with ease and you should be able to do it without a problem.

[rollingsculpture]

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actually does not sound like a timing problem but more likely running too lean on the air/fuel adj screw... is it set 1 1/2 turns out ? or???

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by rollingsculpture

actually does not sound like a timing problem but more likely running too lean on the air/fuel adj screw... is it set 1 1/2 turns out ? or???

Yah I've played with that at different settings and it made no difference. I really am hoping it is just timing.

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree that the problem is more than likely a running lean condition. The air fuel adj. screw on top of the carb, only controls the idle circuit. If the idle speed adjust screw isn't set for a low idle speed, the idle circuit won't kick in and the air adjust screw will have NO effect on idle.

Vacume leaks cause a lean condition. The engine depends on vacume to draw the fuel air mix, up the manifold to the combustion chambers.If there is a vacume leak the engine will be drawing more air which leans the mix. sometimes opening the GAV will help compensate by richening the mixture. If the vacume leak is severe enough, nothing short of fixing the leak will help at all. If a pot metal carb is used, the first place that I would look is where the carb meets the intake manifold. The second would be the manifolds and condition of the seal between the manifolds and block. A lot of cars have warped and cracked manifolds caused from running with retarded timing or driving with the spark lever half way up the quadrant. Torqueing and over tightening the manifolds is also a major cause of warped and cracked manifolds . WD 40 is NOT good to use when checking for vacume leaks. The formulation of WD 40 has been changed and it is no longer flamable. The test fluid or gas needs to be flamable to show an increas in engine speed when testing. Starting fluid or carburetor cleaner sprayed in the suspected leak areas is the best vacume leak test product.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I agree that the problem is more than likely a running lean condition. The air fuel adj. screw on top of the carb, only controls the idle circuit. If the idle speed adjust screw isn't set for a low idle speed, the idle circuit won't kick in and the air adjust screw will have NO effect on idle.

Vacume leaks cause a lean condition. The engine depends on vacume to draw the fuel air mix, up the manifold to the combustion chambers.If there is a vacume leak the engine will be drawing more air which leans the mix. sometimes opening the GAV will help compensate by richening the mixture. If the vacume leak is severe enough, nothing short of fixing the leak will help at all. If a pot metal carb is used, the first place that I would look is where the carb meets the intake manifold. The second would be the manifolds and condition of the seal between the manifolds and block. A lot of cars have warped and cracked manifolds caused from running with retarded timing or driving with the spark lever half way up the quadrant. Torqueing and over tightening the manifolds is also a major cause of warped and cracked manifolds . WD 40 is NOT good to use when checking for vacume leaks. The formulation of WD 40 has been changed and it is no longer flamable. The test fluid or gas needs to be flamable to show an increas in engine speed when testing. Starting fluid or carburetor cleaner sprayed in the suspected leak areas is the best vacume leak test product.

Thanks for the info. I know the few times I've had it running I've had to turn the choke rod about all the way open to get it to start, and it takes minutes upon minutes to get it to finally start. Does that still sound like a vacuum problem?

[tdlmomowers]

Recheck your carb. mounting. A mounting bolt that is too long can interfer with the carb. housing and not allow the carb. to tighten against the manifold. Also make sure you don't have a vacuum leak at the fitting where the line went for the vacuum wipers. Manifold bolts that are loose can also cause the engine to run lean.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Thanks for the info. I know the few times I've had it running I've had to turn the choke rod about all the way open to get it to start, and it takes minutes upon minutes to get it to finally start. Does that still sound like a vacuum problem?

If it takes minutes to start, then you have a real problem, because the engine should start within a few compressions. You need good compression, good spark at the right time, and gas and air. If you pull the choke for a couple compression strokes then gas should drip or run out the carb intake. If not, then you need to see why.

Turn the key on and push the starter rod with your hand while you hold the coil wire 3/8" from a head nut to check for a hot blue spark.

Use a compression tester to check for good compression and within 10% on all cylinders.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Thanks for the info. I know the few times I've had it running I've had to turn the choke rod about all the way open to get it to start, and it takes minutes upon minutes to get it to finally start. Does that still sound like a vacuum problem?

Having to open the GAV way up to get it to run is a real indication of a vacume leak. What carburetor are you useing??? If it is a pot metal carb, I would remove the carb and check for flatness where it meets the intake manifold. usually filing or sanding will help correct the problem. I use the copper clad carb to manifold gasket. The copper gasket is thicker and will squeeze down when tightened and better seal a less than perfect carburetor flange. If a leak is determined to be the gasket between the manifold and the block, I have found thaat the copper clad 1931 style gasket is the best choice. The 31 style gasket is wider and will have a better chance of sealing the gap if you have a slightly sagging manifold assy. You will also need to lay a straight edge lengthwise across the ports of the manifold to check for flatness. If the manifold assy is warped it can be plained.

On the other hand, if no vacume leak can be found, I would check points gap before messing with the timing. If the points gap has closed it will cause similar problems. I set my points at .022 but anywhere from .018 to .022 will work. Its best not to mess with the timing until other avenues are explored. There is a lot of confusion about timing procedure. When checking the timing, watch the rotor tip. When the timing pin drops in place, the trailing edge of the rotor tip should line up with the number one plug wire contact in the distributor cap body with NO clockwise backlash. Counter clockwise backlash will probably be present but will have no effect on timing.

If you can follow what I am saying, it should solve your problems one way or the other. Just one other thing. If you are having to use ethanol adultrated gas and it has been in the tank for a few weeks, this may be the problem. Good luck and keep us posted.

[mothy]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

WD 40 is NOT good to use when checking for vacume leaks. The formulation of WD 40 has been changed and it is no longer flamable. The test fluid or gas needs to be flamable to show an increas in engine speed when testing. Starting fluid or carburetor cleaner sprayed in the suspected leak areas is the best vacume leak test product.

Thinking of sfaety, I have to put another angle to this statement.

When I was involved in the MG Midget world there were a few serious under bonnet/hood fires caused by people using carb cleaner to find air leaks. Naturally any flammable substance will ignite when sprayed near a very hot manifold.

It is my understanding is that WD40 or some other non volatile aerosol proves the air leak, by blocking the leak temporarily before it evaporates away. The theory is that the rpm rises, due to the mixture becoming richer while the air leak is blocked.

Roly

[jan bogert]

Blessyouboys, with the plugs out, turning the fan doesn't do any damage to the fan, or any thing else.

[Purdy Swoft]

[QUOTE=mothy;419459]Thinking of sfaety, I have to put another angle to this statement.

When I was involved in the MG Midget world there were a few serious under bonnet/hood fires caused by people using carb cleaner to find air leaks. Naturally any flammable substance will ignite when sprayed near a very hot manifold.

It is my understanding is that WD40 or some other non volatile aerosol proves the air leak, by blocking the leak temporarily before it evaporates away. The theory is that the rpm rises, due to the mixture becoming richer while the air leak is blocked.

Roly[/QUOT

I agree that carburetor cleaner and starting fluid are flamable. I wouldn't test for vacume leaks if the manifold is red hot . Common sense is needed, whatever!! The purpose of the flamable liquid is, when the vacume leak draws it into the combustion chamber, engine speed will increase and show where the leak is. WD 40 just won't work in this case period. WD 40 will not temporarily block the leak, it will just be drawn in to the cumbustion chamber just like air and will make NO difference in engine speed.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Stethascope with open hose is GOOD! Yes, I repeat a lot!
Repetition is the MOTHER of learning & the FATHER of boredom! Bill W.

[Blessyouboys]

Originally Posted by jan bogert

Blessyouboys, with the plugs out, turning the fan doesn't do any damage to the fan, or any thing else.

I respectfully disagree. The fan was not designed to be used as a lever to turn the motor over.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Blessyouboys

I respectfully disagree. The fan was not designed to be used as a lever to turn the motor over.

Were you an acquaintance of the DESIGNER????
Like, was our pinkie designed to clean our nose boogers? It's called IMPROVISING!
Show me one real mechanic out there who has NEVER turned an engine by it's fan, get real!
Bill W.

[ford1]

Hey Bill, hes right it was not designed to turn over the engine,BUT it works so why not use it?, i use that method to turn the engine for some settings, like setting points and static setting the timing, my theory is if it works, use it, How is your wife? comforable at the least i hope,

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I coud make a living, just traveling around the country, settin' folks timing & pin pointing vacuum leaks! Bill W.