victoria on ebay

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Slant windows mount the column to the dash not the gas tank. Shrunk wood would mean replacement also. Big job and BIG$$$$ on a Vicky. Maybe shimming could bring it back maybe not. It appears to be missing the door garnish moldings too. A plus though is it has the rear apron under the spare at the bottom of the body.

It's not an indented fire wall.

Bob

[Tiny]

Bob that doesn't matter. All Vickys mount the column to the dash not the tank. My father has a very nicely restored one that does not have the indented firewall (March 31) and he is somewhat of an expert in these cars. I grew up around Vickys and their intricate details. Although I'm not an expert that one I do know.

[1930artdeco]

Hi Art,

Welcome to the barn. Not sure of your background and am assuming you are located in Nevada or close to it go see the car. If not I would contact a local club to see if they could send someone out to look at it.

That being said it looks like a solid car for a restoration. In my opinion I would plan on replacing/rebuilding the engine, interior and some if not all of the roof wood. I can't tell from the header picture if that is piece of broken wood or not. Those three items in the end will be big money. But, not necessarily a deal breaker. If that is the car you want and it fits your bill then go for it. It does look like a very solid car to start with. I can't speak about the price though.

Mike

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Bob that doesn't matter. All Vickys mount the column to the dash not the tank. My father has a very nicely restored one that does not have the indented firewall (March 31) and he is somewhat of an expert in these cars. I grew up around Vickys and their intricate details. Although I'm not an expert that one I do know.

Got it. So it should have a gas tank like my early 31 AA that
has a flat fire wall with a dash mounted column support.

Bob

[Tiny]

I'm not sure if it would be the same tank as a AA or not. I don't know much about them, but I would love to know more. A 31 AA short wheelbase is on my "to own someday"list. It appears to be the same tank but you know Henry, it could be just slightly different because its a Vicky.

On a side note I'm not trying to be jerk, just point out the wrong stuff I see. The OP would probably due him self some good to Join the Victoria Association and educate himself before jumping into a project like this.

Vickys are weird with lots of one model only stuff. Things like the front seats are Vicky only. I can't tell you what the difference is on those, I know Tudor seats fit and work but they are not correct. I

[Vern]

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Tiny, with all due respect, I don't believe that "all" Victorias mount the column to the dash. My early steelback has the flat firewall, and has the mount on the tank with the special dropped spacer. Until the introduction of the indented firewall, that's where the Vic column mount was attached.

I do agree with the rest of your comments about Victorias being a challenge to restore, with any number of Vic only parts.
The car in question isn't a bad start, for someone who has the skills. I know of many who have started with less. Knowing what I know now, I'd buy one ready to drive!
Regards,
Vern Schwebke
President
International Model A Victoria Association
[email protected]
www.VictoriaAssociation.com

[Bob C]

If I'm reading Steve Plucker's gas tank article correctly the first Victorias
had the support on the tank with a dropping spacer then for a short time
they used the flat fire wall with the dash mounted support and finally the
indented fire wall. Here in a link to the article, pay attention to pages 13
and 16. http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/gastan...31gas_tank.pdf

Bob

[foxfire42]

I have an unrestored 190A and it too has the gas tank steering column support. It is a very early Vicky as it was built in 1930 (Body # 190A 836).

[Tiny]

Well I may be wrong. That's happened before. My dads car is a march 31 car so that makes it pretty early. Not a 30 though. A vin for the one on eBay would make it easier to tell. If yours was the original tank foxfire I guess there is no disputing that.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Well I may be wrong. That's happened before. My dads car is a march 31 car so that makes it pretty early. Not a 30 though. A vin for the one on eBay would make it easier to tell. If yours was the original tank foxfire I guess there is no disputing that.

I'm suspecting your dads car is being dated by the engine. That is tough to do in 1931, especially if it's a west coast car. By that time there is usually a minimum of three months lag time for an engine to be installed in a vehicle. That means that assuming it's a March engine it would likely be a June car or later. Just as an example, My friend Jim Boehmke's '31 Coupe (pictured here in the past) has an engine built 4/1/31. Documentation proves without question that the first day the car could have been built was 8/2/31. Of course it could have been later by a fair amount.

Keep in mind that the Victoria (as a leather back only) was introduced in November 1930.

I suspect the flat firewall and associated gas tank was precisely why Bob Bidonde correctly stated it to be an early steel back Victoria. There were three major transitions that impacted the Victoria during the period between late April and early June 1931.

1. Transitioned from building only leather back Victorias to only steel back models.

2. The front seats were entirely redesigned during this period. The first version was unique to the Victoria in every detail. The new version was similar but among the many changes included a sliding drivers seat and was shared with the "new" 400-A and the late '31 Deluxe Tudor.

3. The gas tank and firewall was changed to the new indented firewall and gas tank which included a separate steering column support.

All three of these transitions were nearly simultaneous. Any combination of the three features can be found during the transition but I believe the rarest combination would be the leather back with the later of the other two features.

As a final note, the Ebay car in question doesn't show much of the seats but the pivot points for tilting the drivers seat and shades of five pleat mohair where the cover is torn back looks like a Victoria seat. The passenger seat appears to have Tudor pivots so I can only guess. The rear backrest looks to have Bedford cord with narrow pleats which looks much like a S/W Town Sedan seat. Of course could be a 1960's cover.

[Bob Bidonde]

The doors do not depend on wood for alignment. Except for the header, the cowl in a slant windshield car is all steel. Worn hinges are the likely cause of the door sag. 190As have two hinges per door, unlike other Model As that have three hinges per door.

This is an early Steel-Back (February - early April 1931), so the steering column support is most likely on the gas tank. I have the same car. See my 190A Restoration Album in my profile.

[Keith True]

On the one I worked on a few years ago I just had to shim the subrails a hair,and just in one spot.A 1/16 shim on each side made the doors perfect.Every bolt that went through the subrails could be wiggled by hand.Actually I'm not sure if the wood had shrunk a few thousandths or the pads had shrunk.A couple new pads and a half turn on the bolts and it was good.That one also had a flat firewall and the drop on the column mount.That's what made me wonder why Tiny thought the tank was wrong.I have the remains of a slant cowl with one of those drops on it.It is probably the only good part left on it.

[Joop]

Found this one on Craigslist
It has the flat firewall and steel back.
Also has the early and late column bracket.


http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/4916368174.html

[Bill Underwood]

Don't see drivers side door window frame. A very tough item to find and a bit $$

[Lona]

The seller doesn't appear to be hiding anything since he posted a reasonable amount of photos showing all the warts on the car. Could be an "indication" he is a stand up kind of guy. However, from the amount of rust, I question that it is a So. Cal. car always in dry storage as that area is known for rust free iron. Water causes rust and also rots wood. This is a "buyer beware" car that a prudent person would want to see close up before buying.

I'm not knowledgable about the value of Victorias but at that price, the buyer will likely end up with a $25k car at the least if he wants to restore it. Just my opinion.

Glen

[Bob Bidonde]

Here's a later Steel-Back 190A for sale on eBay. This car was built in April or later 1931. There is a lot missing from this car, and the price is high in my opinion.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...US_Cars_Trucks

[Bob Bidonde]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...US_Cars_Trucks

Here's a restored Steel-Back for sale on eBay.

[Tiny]

I might be inching out on a limb here but couldn't a guy use a tank with a column mount and a dash mount to have the results shown in the Phoenix craigslist add? I don't see the spacer to bring the column down like on Vern's car.

Marco dads car is dated off the frame number as it has been entirely restored down to the bare frame.

Here's a picture pre-restoration

[Vern]

Tiny, that is one fine looking steelback. If that's pre-restoration, what does it look like today?

[Tiny]

I don't have a picture of it now. Pops has been VERY sick for the last few years. Hopefully we will be able to get it out this summer. I still need to help him finish up the brakes. In that picture from the late 70's you see a beautiful Vicky that the prior owner had done paint and made it look pretty but left the rotten wood in the car. Although not a Blue Ribbon car now, it is much more correct for its build date than it was when he got the car in 75