Front End Toe-In Alignment Check -- Just another way.

[H. L. Chauvin]

A. Many good articles were written on front end toe-in alignment, & many Forum threads were mentioned on front end alignment using many different methods for measuring; however, one is talking about a very accurate horizontal distance of +/- 1/32" above or below 1/16" provided closer at the front of the front tires than at the rear of the front tires, when both measurements are taken at 6" above the floor.

B. Without having front end alignment tools & equipment, & with wobbly Model A tires, each wobbling +/- 1/16" or more from left to right, it appears difficult to accurately acquire a +/- 1/32" measurement with some already described front end alignment methods using for example, sliding curtain rods, a nail mark on a chalk line drawn on the tire's circumference center, sliding sticks, or what not, placed on in-sides of tires. Maybe this method or a similar toe-in method was already mentionned, but this is just another accurate way that "works" to check front end toe-in alignment.

C. Materials Needed:

1. Six (6) Inch Vertical Marking Tool: Obtain a scrap piece of plywood, 1x4, 2x4, sheet metal, or whatever & squarely cut both ends to measure 6" long when held vertically above the floor.

2. Marking/Masking Tape: Roll of beige or blue painter's masking tape approximately 1" to 2" wide.

3. Fine Tipped Marking Pen: With a bright red or black contrasting color, get either a "fine" felt tip marker, or "extra fine" ball point marking pen, or a very sharp pencil, because two (2) marks with a dull point can easily equal 1/16" or even more.

4. Horizontal Wood Stick or Metal Rod or Bar: Minimum 6 feet long metal, or wood 1x2, 1x4, 2x4, or what ever; rather than a tape measure that is bent or sagging when held, or having the typical +/- 1/16" loose hook on the end of the tape. Place a piece of marking/masking tape on horizontal metal or wood stick or bar for possible multiple subsequent markings & measurements.

D. Measuring:

1. While holding the above mentioned 6" long vertical marking tool vertically next to the front center of both front tires, first apply about a 5"-7" long piece of tape on the circumference of the tire centers; & mark tape with a horizontal line 6" above the floor on both front tires.

2. Next provide a vertical mark on same tire tape close to center of the two (2) front tires, intersecting the already marked horizontal line with a vertical ine.

(Note: These two (2) accurately marked lines on tape stuck to tires, (ressembling fine lined cross-hairs), will not be subject to moving like curtain rods, or any other tool(s) or measuring device(s) placed between sides of tires.)

3. With wood or metal shims, or a helper, place horizontal 6 feet long measuring device adjacent to marks on the tape on the tires & mark the horizontal 6 feet long device at centerlines of both tires. Insure if marked on wood, to provide both marks 90 degrees across the flat surface.

4. Roll vehicle forward appoximately 3 feet to where horizontal marks on tapes are 6" above the floor on the "rear" sides of front tires & mark horizontal device again to check to see if the front centers of tires are 1/16", (+/- 1/32") closer together than that measured at rear.

5. Adjust toe-in if required.

6. One can also apply tape at other different locations on front tires to check & measure toe-in at different tire locations if so desired.

Hope this helps someone -- just checked & re-adjusted toe-in, (1/32" toe-in at front), & can now turn steering wheel loose a few seconds to observe perfect tracking.

[700rpm]

H.L., I think I have tried all your methods mentioned above (except this most recent), and this one sounds like the best. I've sent you a PM.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

One Barner's suggestion was to insert 2 straight pins in the tire tread, 6" off the floor, measure between them, then roll the car forward until the pins are 6" from the floor, & measure again.
Seems more accurate than some methods discussed. REMEMBER, if your wheel bearings are adjusted "loosey-goosey" then why are you even bothering to try to measure ANYTHING!!!! Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Bill,

Without a dog to supervise, how far in does one drive the pins in the tire?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Bill,

Without a dog to supervise, how far in does one drive the pins in the tire?

That's FUNNY! H.L, The Dog's laughin' SO hard, he said he has to go out to pee! As he left, he said, "Tell H.L. that we got NEW tires with lotsa' rubber to poke in"! Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Bill,

Just had to add that comment because it appears dogs are our Model A tire experts.

As switch hitters, they can smell a tire, move back & forth a few times, & can determine if it is better to perform a RH or LH leg raising action.

Hope your car tires were protected in the garage when Buster-T just went out.

[Chuck Kuntz]

That pin method was my suggestion. Pins need to be in just far enough to hold (1/8th inch)It has worked well for me for 55 years.
Chuck

[H. L. Chauvin]

Chuck,

I like your pin method very much because of the extreme accuracy of the measurements fore & aft on the tire at 6" above the floor.

Unlike curtain rods, sliding sticks, & other tools, that can slip on the in-side "convex" surfaces of tires, the centered pins cannot move & do not move as the sides of the tires flex when rolling.

Then if one has doubts, pins can be relocated to different surface areas for rechecking accuracy of toe-in.

Thanks.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Main thing, after adjusting, keep an eye on the tires for scuff patterns. Outside to inside = too much toe IN. Inside to outside= too much toe OUT. Put a masking tape note on the backside of your tie rod indicating whichaway is toe in & whichaway is toe out, then you can make a SLIGHT corrective change in the time it would take to change a headlight bulb!!!
Bill W.

[mccsix]

dummy questions here.......... the pins go where on the tire? both tires are always off the ground while measuring?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Gene,

Never used pins, but:

1. Appears pins would work best on the near center thicker tire treads on the circumference of the tires which contacts the highway as oppose to the sides of the tires where the rubber is thinner.

2. If you choose to leave tires on the floor to check toe-in, Ford recommended to measure toe-in at a height of 6" above the floor at front & rear of front tires.

3. If you choose to elevate tires off of the floor to check toe-in at front & rear of tires:

a) Measure distance from the center of the front axle nut to the floor & say for example that this dimension would be x.

b) Then jack up tire off of the floor until the tire clears the floor & say that distance from the center of the front axle to the floor is now for example 2" greater than dimension X.

c) Then check the elevated tire toe-in at 8", (6" + 2" = 8") off of the floor in lieu of 6" off of the floor when tire was on the floor.

d) Elevated tires measured as such can be rotated & measured without moving the vehicle.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I, personally, would have weight on the wheels, in case of possibly a little king pin wear, or whatever. Just poke the pins in the rear of the tire, 6" off the floor & roll it forward to 6" off the floor. Now, if I could only teach the Dog to hold the tape! He mumbled something about no thumbs.
On a Sierra Mountains trip, one of our guys about scuffed away his 21's on the trip up. Someone had a tape measure and measured from a raised tire rib, marked the spot, rolled forward, measured again from the same spot, & adjusted him quite well for the trip down! And, of course, 2 skinny guys were chosen to get under the car. Skinny Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Bill,

Point well taken to have tires on the ground if anything is loose.

However, with new front wheel bearings & races; used, fine tuned hubs with newly mounted cast iron brake drums from Mr. Mel Gross; and with backs of front axle nuts dressed & filed down such that when the cotter pins are inserted in the castle nuts the front wheel bearings have close to 0.007" movement per Timken Bearing Specifications; and with new king pins & new bushings that I reamed & later burnished w/0000 steel wool; plus Firestone tires made in Canada with very low mileage; this front end checked out at 1/32" toe-in on the ground & in also the air -- don't have a lift so did not try toe-in while (6) feet in the air.

Would have been nice to have had a wonderful mechanc like Buster-T around helping -- my wife has (5) Cavalier King Charles Spaniels & not one (1) mechanic in the bunch -- but they all enjoy riding in a car.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

5 DOGS!!!! What FUN!!! Buster T.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Bill,

My wife's dogs come from different parts of Europe & the U.S. -- one comes from the Czech Republic, one from France -- their cousins are all over Europe -- they bark in different languages -- really an education -- Zoya is a finished musician -- she recognizes a tune, runs to the TV, & barks at the dog in the commercial -- they learned key words, so we started spelling -- now they can recognize spelling --thought about introducing Model A ignition timing or something, but they are all diplomats, not mechanical types like Buster-T --you are indeed lucky.

[donh]

I use a neat spring loaded bar that has a sliding scale on it. It fits against the inner walls of the front tires. Hanging from the bar ends are two 6 inch chains. After you set the bar for height and tire position, you just roll the car forward. The gauge moves back with the tires. Stopping when the chain is hanging at its full length. Read the scale and make any adjustments to the Toe as necessary. Easy process. The name on the tool is: S&G Tool Aid Corp. Newark, NJ. You can go to their website and search for the wheel aligning tool.

[luckyal]

HL My mechanic says your idea is a winner and will try it on my Cabriolet this weekend.
Thanks Al

[H. L. Chauvin]

Al,

After looking at different methods for determining front end alignment with 1930's measurements on the convex surfaces of insides of tires; rolling the car/truck where alignment tools decrease in length as they pass through the decreased dimension on a flatten tire near the floor; looking at new Model A tire prices; & reading www.tirebusiness.com, it was found that:

1. In front tire alignment, incorrect "toe-in" adjustment is the major cause for tire wear as opposed to caster & camber angles.

2. Tire rotation is time consuming & not an alternative to front tire wear.

3. One eight inch (1/8") error in "toe-in" can cause a whopping 11.5 feet of tire scrubbing or horizontal tire dragging per each mile traveled.

3. For example, with a 1/8" toe-in error, (at 11.5 feet of scrubbing per mile), if one drives 460 miles in a day, this is equal to dragging one's fully weighted front tires on the highway sideways for one (1) mile -- that's dragging wear on "both" front tires -- plus, whitewalls cost more to replace -- at this tire wear rate, the front tires do not cause smoke like when immediately applying brakes because on such a 460 mile trip, the tire wear occurs in over 10 hours of driving as opposed to 10 seconds while applying brakes.

4. Rather than go to a tire shop, where they probably would not even be able to find the Model A tie rod, just tried a different method for trying to achieve accurate measurements.

(Not all tire manufacturer executives enjoy reading suggestions on how to make tires last longer -- could explain an experience at a stock holder's meeting, but just too long a story.)

[1931 flamingo]

Some older garages/front end shops might still have the scuff board you used to drive over. FWIW
paul in CT

[luckyal]

HL I am truly impressed. You are obviuously very well educated in the subject matter and well versed in this topic. We are fortunate to have you as a Barner.
Al