Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2017, 09:46 AM   #1
bluemoontruck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Manzanita ,OR
Posts: 12
Default Duel Carbs

Saw this at an Antique Tractor show.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 81614 008.jpg (70.1 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg 81614 010.jpg (57.8 KB, 243 views)
File Type: jpg 81614 003.jpg (48.3 KB, 204 views)
bluemoontruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 10:15 AM   #2
Tiny
Senior Member
 
Tiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Redding Cal
Posts: 1,377
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Very cool. I have seen a few of those set ups over the years. There was an article in SOSS years ago about building them
__________________
Blackwall Panthers
Nor Cal chapter
Tiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-27-2017, 10:53 AM   #3
mike657894
Senior Member
 
mike657894's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bay City Michigan
Posts: 1,017
Default Re: Duel Carbs

i would geuss welded with fire and brass. unless someone knows what the proper way to weld cast is?
mike657894 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 11:20 AM   #4
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,822
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike657894 View Post
. . .. unless someone knows what the proper way to weld cast is?
Well now, there's a can of worms! We could add that one to "which oil?", "Whitewalls?" and a few others!

When I was in high school I took welding shop and first learned to weld broken C.I. lathe beds and legs with a 1/4"x1/4" square cast gray iron filler rod, borax (flux) and an acetylene torch. Since then I've encountered quite a few other methods... I'm sure others could post their absolute surefire no-crack methods!
__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 11:33 AM   #5
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,476
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Mike, that's exactly how I like to repair cast iron, but I can't find the cast iron filler rod, and none of the welding shops around here even know about it. I bought some in Watertown, S.D. at the welding shop, but only have a few inches left. That was the shop that first told me about it, and they are the only shop that seems to know about it.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 12:59 PM   #6
Ray in La Mesa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Mesa Ca
Posts: 804
Default Re: Duel Carbs

I've run that setup for many years using the Secrets of Speed article & it does great, about the same milage but about 25% increase in performance. I originally welded the second mount on but it kept cracking so the last time I braised it and have had no further problems.
Ray in La Mesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 12:59 PM   #7
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 5,792
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike657894 View Post
i would geuss welded with fire and brass. unless someone knows what the proper way to weld cast is?
'proper way'...to weld cast iron, is to use cast iron !

Like Mike says...like opening up a can of worms...as to answer in detail.
Take cast iron to a professional cast iron welding company to have welded/repaired properly and they will have an oven to start with...then eventually add cast iron to repair.

Last edited by hardtimes; 04-27-2017 at 01:00 PM. Reason: ..........
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 12:40 AM   #8
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 715
Default Re: Duel Carbs

I've used nirod before.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 12:49 AM   #9
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,650
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Never tried it but I was once told an arc welder would do the trick with ordinary mild steel jobber electrodes with a copper wire wrapped around them. Must give it a try one day!
BTW, I contemplated using 2 updraughts but there is no room if you want to steer a RHD car.
__________________
For the first half of our life we trade our health for wealth. For the second half, we spend our wealth on our health.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 02:26 AM   #10
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 14,041
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Mike, that's exactly how I like to repair cast iron, but I can't find the cast iron filler rod, and none of the welding shops around here even know about it. I bought some in Watertown, S.D. at the welding shop, but only have a few inches left. That was the shop that first told me about it, and they are the only shop that seems to know about it.

"RCI is a high-quality gray iron oxyacetylene welding rod, designed for gas welding of cast iron, general fabrication or building up new or worn surfaces on castings."

http://www.weldingwire.com/products/...-Cast-Iron/RCI
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 04:16 AM   #11
Bruce of MN
Senior Member
 
Bruce of MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 664
Default Re: Duel Carbs

I took a night school welding class, jeez, 40 years ago, and the teacher said Machinable nickel rod was for arc welding cast iron. He had a mobile welding business, so he wasn't a "theorist". I used it to build up a piece of broken off table on a little vise.
Bruce of MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 06:07 AM   #12
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,431
Default Re: Duel Carbs

One of the advantages of working in a nuclear power plant is one comes across ALL sorts of unusual repair methodologies.

Like Eutectic Weld Electrodes for cast iron.

https://www.castolin.com/en-US/produ...ode-xuper-2240

Only $125 a pound 20 years ago. But comes with nuclear certification!

I found a way to get 5 lbs past the metal detectors at the gate.

They do recommend "hammer peining" of the partially completed weld.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 07:45 AM   #13
Pete / MA
Senior Member
 
Pete / MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brookfield, NH
Posts: 102
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Do the carbs need the main jets changed?
Thanks
Pete / MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 08:34 AM   #14
Ray in La Mesa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Mesa Ca
Posts: 804
Default Re: Duel Carbs

No, in my experience each carb thinks it's the only on there. I tried changing jets but went back to stock ones on my two "B" carbs.
Ray in La Mesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 08:43 AM   #15
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,822
Default Re: Duel Carbs

And the Can of Worms has been opened!
(What a way to hijack a thread, I plead guilty!)

So far we have:

  • I would guess welded with fire and brass.
  • Square C.I. rods…
  • I've used nirod before.
  • mild steel jobber electrodes with a copper wire wrapped around them.
  • -Cast-Iron/RCI
  • Machinable nickel rod
  • Eutectic Weld Electrodes for cast iron (castolin)
__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 08:52 AM   #16
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,431
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Don't forget that some use a standard MIG to weld cast iron. I think they use the regular steel wire. My mild steel spool says AWS A5.18 ER70S-6.

And they do it WITHOUT pre-heating the casting?

Mebbe not. http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/cast-iron.htm

I can't think of WHY this should work - but some say it works for them?

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 10:07 AM   #17
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 715
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
And the Can of Worms has been opened!
(What a way to hijack a thread, I plead guilty!)

So far we have:

  • I would guess welded with fire and brass.
  • Square C.I. rods…
  • I've used nirod before.
  • mild steel jobber electrodes with a copper wire wrapped around them.
  • -Cast-Iron/RCI
  • Machinable nickel rod
  • Eutectic Weld Electrodes for cast iron (castolin)
Nirod is basically nickel electric welding rod.
Brazing rod using gas, cast iron rod, any of what is available out there that claims to work with cast iron the cast being welded needs to be preheated. Temperature sticks that are like a crayon in different temperature ranges can be bought at most well stocked welding supply stores. Also the piece being welded needs to cool slowly. I have welded a lot in the past on heavy equipment so to speak in the field. Everybody has their own method and whatever works for them, fine. Read books on the subject and get hands on experience from somebody that is willing to show you their methods.
Eutectic is a brand name and they have several alloys for welding various types of metal.

Back to the main subject on the dual carbs. I've seen modifications like the OP has shown. Depending on application I wouldn't expect to get a better mpg compared to a stock setup and there is a lot more involved in tuning, matching or getting a balance of intake and exhaust. To me a progressive linkage downdraft would work much better.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 10:53 AM   #18
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,431
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Eutectic is a brand name and they have several alloys for welding various types of metal.
Their big sell point of Eutectic/Castolin is the weld can be machined. Nickel based cast iron repair cannot be machined, but it can be ground with difficultly. Not a place to use your carbide burrs.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:28 PM   #19
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 5,792
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by denniskliesen View Post
Nirod is basically nickel electric welding rod.
Brazing rod using gas, cast iron rod, any of what is available out there that claims to work with cast iron the cast being welded needs to be preheated. Temperature sticks that are like a crayon in different temperature ranges can be bought at most well stocked welding supply stores. Also the piece being welded needs to cool slowly. I have welded a lot in the past on heavy equipment so to speak in the field. Everybody has their own method and whatever works for them, fine. Read books on the subject and get hands on experience from somebody that is willing to show you their methods.
Eutectic is a brand name and they have several alloys for welding various types of metal.

Back to the main subject on the dual carbs. I've seen modifications like the OP has shown. Depending on application I wouldn't expect to get a better mpg compared to a stock setup and there is a lot more involved in tuning, matching or getting a balance of intake and exhaust. To me a progressive linkage downdraft would work much better.
Hey dennis,
x2 on your carb conclusions !

Regarding the cast iron welding. From speaking with well known/recommended companies and from reading, I've been informed that if you 'repair' anything cast iron, with anything other than cast iron...they will not be able to repair that part...without having to cut out all of the non cast iron and then use cast iron repairs(expensive done right). Then maybe not repairable and then very expensive. They will not take on any work where previous repairs are done this way, i.e.- nirod,etc) So, if a guy has RARE/expensive item...say antique head / block with nirod etc., that needs more fixing...good luck ?
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:49 PM   #20
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,822
Default Re: Duel Carbs

Well, that manifold looks kinda cool, but from a flow bench point of view the traffic jam at that intersection can't possibly be good. Reminds me of those 'put a 4bbl on your 2bbl manifold' adapters Warshawsky used to sell.

Progressive would be interesting. Convert the inner carb to operate like a vacuum secondary (no mechanical linkage) and make it a bit richer.

While you've got all your favorite C.I. welding stuff laid out make the intersection a larger, flow friendly plenum using a piece of 2" cast iron soil pipe. Total cost will be only $10 for the piece of soil pipe and $500 for welding supplies if you use the Castolin xuper 2240! When you're done you could put it in a well-used sheep pasture and play 'Where's Waldo' trying to find it.
__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.