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01-22-2017, 10:46 PM | #1 |
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Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Published: 01/22/17 10:08 am EST.Updated: 01/22/17 10:10 am EST.
MARION COUNTY, Ohio - A man is dead after a crash in Marion County Sunday morning according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol. OSHP said Thomas Young, 53, was driving a 1928 Ford Model A westbound on State Route 95 east of LaRue around 12:35 a.m. Sunday. Young, from LaRue, drove off the right side of the road then overcorrected and drove of the left side of the road according to state troopers. OSHP said the car hit a tree and Young was thrown from the vehicle. Young was not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one according to OSHP. Young was pronounced dead at the scene. http://www.10tv.com/article/man-kill...-marion-county
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01-23-2017, 12:30 AM | #2 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
To fit seatbelts here, they must be inspected and approved by an engineer. Most don't fit them because it is sooo dificult in our cars to meet the standards.I have fitted them but not had them inspected. I wear them every outing and if ever there was a crash, I'd consider them a 100% success if the Police took me to court over it. At least I would "be here to be there"!!!
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01-23-2017, 01:21 AM | #3 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I need to get on making myself a set. Haven't got my car road worthy quite yet.(still no shocks).
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01-23-2017, 01:47 AM | #4 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Don't worry, inspectors over here don't know Model A/s had shocks in the first place.
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01-23-2017, 01:49 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
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01-23-2017, 03:59 AM | #6 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-23-2017, 04:11 AM | #7 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I think there can be no doubt that our risk of accident while driving our Model As is higher than when in our modern cars. Care is essential. If I am going to be driving my A, I NEVER touch a drop of alcohol before hand. I figure I have to be right on top of my game and impairment starts with the first sip of booze.
I'm not making any suggestion that this unfortunate Model A driver was anything but sober.
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01-23-2017, 05:16 AM | #8 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Here is how I figure it, could he, due to the severity of the crash, have died with one, yes. But he absolutely died without one.
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01-23-2017, 05:23 AM | #9 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Mine are there to keep me in, in case of the door popping open on a curve and bump, and having worn seat belts for over fifty years, I feel better with them. I remember Chevron Gas would sell and install them for $5 per set in 1965 or so.
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01-23-2017, 05:33 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
When you are driving a modern car beware of model A drivers and don't crash into them..........they are probably wearing no seat belts. |
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01-23-2017, 06:17 AM | #11 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Wow this is about 40 minutes from where I live. I don't know the name though. Prayers to the family.
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01-23-2017, 06:55 AM | #12 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Please don't try to twist my words.
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01-23-2017, 07:25 AM | #13 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I'm putting them in my car! My wife and baby will be riding with me sometimes and we all want to make it home after a fun day of cruising.
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01-23-2017, 07:40 AM | #14 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
See http://cedarcreekas.org/TechTopics/index.php for one example of installing seatbelts in a Tudor.
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01-23-2017, 07:51 AM | #15 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-23-2017, 08:50 AM | #16 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
My condolences to Thomas Young's family and friends. Jeff
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01-23-2017, 09:56 AM | #17 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Plenty of threads here on installing seat belts. IMHO, every owner should have them installed. And, if you are going to do it, take the next step and install retractable shoulder belts at the same time. Seat belts alone might save you but in a head-on, you are most certainly going to leave some teeth and face parts on the steering wheel or windshield.
Glen
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01-23-2017, 03:24 PM | #18 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
MIRACULOUSLY, I rode motorcycles for YEARS, without a seat belt, and I'm still ALIVE, to tipe this!!!
Bill Gambler
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01-23-2017, 03:36 PM | #19 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
A great many times in our lives it is extremely prudent to ignore laws.
The seat belt is one of those times. Like many things in life, it is prudent to do things because they increase the quality of life - not because there is a 'law'. The seat belt is one of those times. I installed and began using seat belts in all my vehicle long before there was a law. It was not because there was a 'law' - it was because I believed it would help increase the odds of saving my life or reducing my injuries in a crash. Currently there is a law that mandates seat belts. I do not wear seatbelts to comply with the law. I wear seatbelts because it is the prudent thing to do. If there was a law that prohibited the wearing of seatbelts, I would ignore that law. The seat belt is one of those times. |
01-23-2017, 03:42 PM | #20 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
MANY years back, we used seat belts, when they were available in the War Surplus Stores!
I still have U.S. Army silverwear. Bill W.
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01-23-2017, 03:44 PM | #21 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Appears it is always a good idea to kindly remind others from time to time about Model A safety concerns and Model A safety considerations that are available.
Then, each one of us can think, try to evaluate, and try to decide what is most important with the life we are enjoying today. Thanks for the reminder. |
01-23-2017, 04:02 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
Well, here it is. In all of my As, I have a lap belt for each passenger and either a lap/sash belt or racing style harness for the driver. I'm usually the driver and I don't want to be impaled on the steering column. Wearing them makes me feel much safer but I know I am still not as safe as in a modern car. I think equally important for safety is your safe driving ability/techniques
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01-23-2017, 05:01 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
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01-23-2017, 05:55 PM | #24 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Here is how I figure it, could he, due to the severity of the crash, have died with one, yes. But he absolutely died without one.
and at least didnt end up comatose or paralyzed for life............. because of one. as Chippy mentions- no requirement to have a seat belt when riding a motorcycle. we all have choices. I dont want them in my antiques-end of story! |
01-23-2017, 06:10 PM | #25 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Here is a post from the V8 Forum. The driver had a seat belt on and was not injured.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213014 |
01-23-2017, 06:49 PM | #26 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-23-2017, 08:44 PM | #27 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but I saw a Model A with ONE continuous lap belt, from one door to the other. His idea was that it "might'" keep them from falling out of the car????
Bill W.
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01-24-2017, 03:59 AM | #28 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I see seat belts as being like the helmets that soldiers wear, they boost confidence and give the wearer a feeling of invulnerability. It is a well documented fact that after the British Army issued hard hats to all their soldiers fighting in the trenches fatalities from sniper fire increased dramatically. Before they realised that a bare head or woolly hat was no protection against a bullet but with a bit of tin on their head they believed that all would be fine.
If you want to fit a seatbelt to a Model A fine, it's a great idea, but, please, continue to drive as though you are driving without. Belt and braces. |
01-24-2017, 07:34 AM | #29 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
If you are t-boned at the drivers side and you are in a seatbelt where do you go?.........nowhere,you'l get the full impact from the crashed door and sidewall. Such a '40 Ford is more solid as a model A,when you are t-boned in a model A you can only do 1 thing...........pray........ I don't have seatbelts in my tudor and i don't want them too,i know it is not very smart but i never wear seatbelts(only if the cops are looking to avoid a ticket) in my modern car,i hate those things and take the risk.......... |
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01-24-2017, 08:11 AM | #30 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
My condolences to the family.
The crash occurred at 12:15AM? That might imply less than ideal driving conditions. Certainly Model A headlights are a bit less bright than modern day halogens or LEDs Here is an excellent source for seat belts-classic styles, DOT approved, reasonable cost. Never re-use belts from a wrecking yard. http://www.andoauto.com/ |
01-24-2017, 08:50 AM | #31 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I wear my seat belt for added comfort and to help stop fuel leaks. What!? Model A seats have no side bolsters, and so it is easy to slide around a lot. The belt keeps me planted in the seat. Without it you use your grip on the steering wheel to stop sliding sideways in a turn. This applies lateral force (multiple by the lever effect of the length of the steering column drop) to the attachment point on the bottom of the fuel tank. This can lead to leaks.
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01-24-2017, 10:16 AM | #32 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
If you have been around A's for anytime, you will likely agree that it doesn't take a catastrophic event for a door to open inadvertently. Especially open cars. I'll take my chances staying in the vehicle. We all know going in that we are not surrounded by the safety of modern vehicles, but we also know that we are surrounded by distracted drivers. Pay attention to your environment, traffic, be aware of distractions. I drive my A's to escape the madness. That usually means traveling by backroads, two-lanes whenever possible. My seat belts make me more secure than not. If I am confronted by a catastrophic collision, one that dislodges steering gear, etc. than my time has come, seat belt or no and I have accepted that risk by choosing to drive this antique.
RIP Mr.Young. |
01-24-2017, 10:43 AM | #33 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Not a fan of belts in a model A. While i certainly understand the dangers of being thrown out in an accident (which is WAY more likely in an A than a modern car), I also understand that being strapped in with the fuel tank virtually in your lap has it's inherent risks well in a accident. I don't like either consideration. As someone else mentioned, the bigger risk, IMO is being thrown out just by the door coming open in a curve (for the passenger) and for this, and this only, I would consider belts.
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01-24-2017, 11:33 AM | #34 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Synchro909,
Yes, you can fairly easily install three point retractable seat belts in an open car. I installed them in our roadster and they work well. For anybody interested, do a forum search or google "put 3point retractable seat belts in a roadster" or PM me. Glen
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01-24-2017, 12:02 PM | #35 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
IMHO If you don't want seat belts, don't install them. If you don't want to wear seat belts don't wear them.
If you don't know know what to do, just read the local newspaper for reports of accidents and note the number of people thrown from their vehicles and killed (and that is in modern cars). Several local young people died within the last year, "too cool to wear a seatbelt?" cold now, dead cold! |
01-24-2017, 01:29 PM | #36 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I'm going to put 3 point shoulder belts/seat belts in my 30 CCPU this spring. I will be replacing the wood brace across the back of the cab with a machined steel one the same size. I'll put a 1x2 steel pillar in each corner and attach it the new steel brace. That will be the upper attachment point for the shoulder belt. The height of the pillar will be 29 inches above the seat cushion, same as my S10 Blazer. I figure no sense in going half way.
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01-24-2017, 02:03 PM | #37 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
A lot of you must have very fast As with fantastic grip. All this talk about being thrown from the car if a door flies open! You must be pulling G forces that I can only dream about.
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01-24-2017, 02:44 PM | #38 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Somebody pulls out in front of you and you hit them at 45 MPH, I dare say there are multiple G forces going to put a hurting on you!!!!!!!!!!!
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01-24-2017, 03:14 PM | #39 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
AL,
Be sure to take plenty of pictures. Your plan is exactly what I will want to do for my Pickup.
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01-24-2017, 03:36 PM | #40 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
And when that happens, as pointed out above, your seat belt is not going to offer you anything like the level of protection that many of the posters imagine it will. Is there any crash test data to show exactly what will happen to the driver and passenger in a frontal crash at any speed?
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01-24-2017, 03:41 PM | #41 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-24-2017, 03:58 PM | #42 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Well "Chippy" - you keep tweeting that seat belts won't help you in an accident. I'll install them anyway to try and help me avoid serious injury in an accident, while your driving with your fingers crossed.
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01-24-2017, 04:20 PM | #43 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Cars need giant airbags on the front and rear bumpers that deploy when computers detect speed and distance to an approaching object are about to cause an accident. That will help save the car and occupant.
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01-24-2017, 04:22 PM | #44 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
You are missing the point. I have no problem with you fitting and wearing seat belts in your Model A. That is your choice and probably a good choice at that. The problem is presuming that by fitting seat belts to your car you will really be helping to avoid serious injury. Fit your seat belts, wear them but please, please, please drive in the manner that you would if they where not there. Fitting seat belts in a car without crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, absorbent dash panels and airbags is a gesture, if fitting them gives you the same sense of invincibility that wearing seat belts in a modern car gives you then it is a dangerous gesture.
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01-24-2017, 04:31 PM | #45 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
Today's cars have been made so idiot proof, that people are now driving like idiots. |
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01-24-2017, 04:33 PM | #46 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-24-2017, 04:37 PM | #47 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-24-2017, 04:41 PM | #48 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
By the way you haven't been reading my posts very well. I certainly won't be driving anywhere with my fingers crossed, they will be usefully engaged steering, changing gear and doing anything else that allows me to drive safely and maintain control of my car.
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01-24-2017, 11:13 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
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01-24-2017, 11:22 PM | #50 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I'm going to side with Chippy, no seat belt is going to help much, if at all. Just a false sense of security.
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01-25-2017, 12:27 AM | #51 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Why not install air bags?. They would provide MUCH more safety than seat belts in the inherently unsafe design of the model A which isn't much more than a glorified golf cart. Seriously, if it's safety that is desired, air bags are the way to go. BTW, while being thrown out of a model A in the event of a crash is highly likely, just by design, being impaled by the steering column in a header is also very likely not to mention that you would have ZERO chance of surviving ANY crash in a model A that resulted in a fire, having the gas tank sitting on your lap and all. If you want safety, leave the model A's at home.
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01-25-2017, 12:42 AM | #52 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I haven't seen such a polarising thread for quite a while. Remember guys, keep it nice!
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01-25-2017, 04:30 AM | #53 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
vehicles have state of the art safety features. My big concern is the feeling amongst many people that if they retro fit seat belts to their Model A, a car that was not designed around this fitting, that they are providing themselves with a huge life saving feature. They are not. Seat belts only help up to a point and in a car like a Model A that point is not much. From reading the posts I then get the impression that once seat belts are fitted the posters are confident that there A is now as safe as a modern car in modern traffic density at modern speeds. It is not and never will be. I repeat my point: Fit seatbelts if you want, I have no issue with that. However, if you do fit seatbelts please continue to drive your Model A as though they aren't there, don't think that your modification has somehow made you invincible. |
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01-25-2017, 04:37 AM | #54 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
You are knocking your head against a brick wall trying to get your message across Chippy. Many of the other members are people who think that the best option for road safety is to get the biggest truck possible, strap yourself in then, when the accident happens their size and weight should mean that they receive less damage than they hand out. As I have said my primary safety feature when driving my Model A is to only drive on suitable roads with minimal traffic. Anywhere with a high likelihood of my becoming in an accident is not the place for a vintage car and if I was surrounded by fast cars and heavy lorries wearing a seat belt would give me no extra sense of security. I really can't believe that wearing a seatbelt would make an ounce of difference when the accident happens.
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01-25-2017, 05:30 AM | #55 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
He has/had one of those full single right across ones on his bed (probably a king size ) in his plane in the museum across from Gracelands. https://www.flickr.com/photos/cybermelli/4038209055 Last edited by pooch; 01-25-2017 at 05:35 AM. |
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01-25-2017, 11:24 AM | #56 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
If one were to discuss having or not having Model A seat belts with one hundred Model A drivers, one may find that lots of opinions depends on the the particular individual Model A driver's "mindset" while driving.
For example: 1. Without Seat Belts: Some intelligent Model A drivers would report being a hundred times "more" cautious while driving a Model A that does "not" have seat belts because of great fear of injury or death to family members as a results of a crash; and, 2. With Seat Belts: Some intelligent Model A drivers would report being a hundred times "less" cautious while driving a Model A that "does" have seat belts because of far less fear of injury or death to family members as a results of a crash. 3. If this were the results of this case, with the opinions of this one hundred drivers, appears drivers "without" seat belts may drive far more defensively at "slower" speeds and drivers "with" seat belts may drive less defensively at "higher" speeds. 4. Based on statistics plus an individual Model A Driver's Luck, while driving on paved, higher speed highways in 2017, among texting drivers, and druggies, the Moral of this story appears to be explained in one (1) question: As far as Model A Driver's Luck, when was the last time you won the Lottery? Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 01-25-2017 at 11:28 AM. Reason: typo |
01-25-2017, 11:51 AM | #57 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
September 13 1979.. Won the lottery. Met my wife that night. Living Happily Ever After.
Jeff and "Sharon"
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01-25-2017, 12:53 PM | #58 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I drive my model a with caution to other drivers,but i'll drive it everywhere,country roads,highways,rush hour in Amsterdam i don't care.
If faster cars will pass me they must do so,if they honk as i drive too slow(i am respecting the speed limits)i give them the finger. I don't have or wear seatbelts in my A as i think i would be saver without them as wearing them. I live in the Netherlands,almost every road has a canal beside the road,as a former fire fighter i had the "pleasure"diving corpses out of cars who were still in there belts and died in the water because they could not get out the belt. Once i was in a crash and landed in a canal,i did'nt wear a seatbelt and was out of the car before i get wet,at the end i stood on the roof when the car sunk and still got wet..... Driving without seatbelts is a calculated risk,also is crossing the street,riding a bike or a motorcycle or walking the dog,if you don't pay attention you can be hit by a bus or a whatsappend soccer mom.
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01-25-2017, 01:21 PM | #59 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
No matter the Model A subject, Model A owners always have the right to enjoy letting other Model A owners know:
"I did it my way!" |
01-25-2017, 04:18 PM | #60 |
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Location: Eureka, California
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
The rowdy noise of these 'word fests' help keep us older guys awake and young !
And they also give us, for time to time, an opportunity for a whimsical smile. It is the next best thing to having a small boat with a Ford man, a Chevy man, and a GM man - all trying to figure out who is going to be Captain, based on the quality and relative merits of their own favorite marque. Of course, the boat does not go anywhere, but it IS a hellava exciting entertainment. |
01-25-2017, 07:12 PM | #61 |
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Location: Johnstown, PA
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
It may well be "just a false sense of security" but after having them in mine for a few years I feel very vulnerable if I drive any time with out being "buckled up".
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01-25-2017, 07:26 PM | #62 |
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Location: Redwood City, CA
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
It's all speculation Gents.
Just remember anything can happen at any time.
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1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)
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01-25-2017, 07:30 PM | #63 |
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Location: Mpls, MN
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-25-2017, 09:19 PM | #64 |
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Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
All my As have seat belts, will they save my life in an accident maybe, maybe not. The physical structure of an A is not like a modern vehicle. But I will say this in over 50 years of Fire and Rescue, I have NEVER cut a dead person out of a vehicle who was wearing a seat belt, NEVER, and that goes back to the mid-60s when they were factory installed by law. Many of the people were banged up pretty bad but alive. I am a realist and tonight when the alert goes off that might change, but I'll go with what I have seen over all those years. And to answer the questions that I am sure will be posted, some of those vehicles were some pretty shabby constructed Model A Hot-rods and 32-40 coupes and roadsters, but they had belts, and the people lived, banged up but alive. Your mileage may vary.
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01-26-2017, 12:35 AM | #65 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
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01-26-2017, 01:19 AM | #66 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
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01-26-2017, 03:40 AM | #67 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
I ride a sports touring motorcycle and won't go fifty yards without my helmet, protective clothing and gloves. However while I am on the road I understand that I remain vulnerable and if I am involved in an incident almost anything I hit is going to do me a lot of harm. I drive my Model A in the same way. I take far more (calculated) risks in my other cars. |
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01-26-2017, 12:48 PM | #68 |
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Location: Florham Park, NJ
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
First ride around the block I did in mine, I wound up on the wrong side of the car on a left hand turn. Leatherette seats sure are slippery. Next trip was done with seat belts in the car.
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01-26-2017, 04:39 PM | #69 | ||
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
Quote:
I would not worry about a perfect installation in an antique car that would not have had them otherwise... 50% of something is infinitely better than nothing. |
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01-26-2017, 06:04 PM | #70 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
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01-26-2017, 11:41 PM | #71 | |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
Quote:
In my opinion this is a foolish debate as this is no "right" answer.
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01-28-2017, 12:20 PM | #72 |
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Re: Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one
I put belts in my A, they are there for anyone to use. I explain to them where the gas tank is, fuel line and how the body can separate from the frame, then I leave it up to them....they usually don't bother.
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