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Old 01-01-2020, 11:09 AM   #1
Standing Elk
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Default Quick question

I am sure this has been hashed out before but I am curious as to your preference between using the (paper) Air Maze filter and the K&N cartridge that fits the Air Maze housing? Thanks
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:16 AM   #2
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Default Re: Quick question

I use the metal mesh, Paper one can get gas soaked.
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Old 01-01-2020, 12:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: Quick question

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I use the metal mesh, Paper one can get gas soaked.



Yup.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Quick question

Option #3 - No air filter here
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Old 01-01-2020, 04:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Quick question

I feel that some air filters cause more problems than they solve . It has been said that the K&N filter works well . Model A's didn't come with an air filter and I don't use one !!!
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Quick question

I've seen a metal mesh screen and IMO, they only remove low flying birds and small children. Pretty much useless! I use ONLY paper filters and mout them higher than the carburettor, usually on the radiator stays. That started because the air filters you guys use won't fit here.
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Quick question


This is quite an interesting information regarding air filters in general.

I would personally never run an engine without an air or oil filter

Chris
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Old 01-01-2020, 06:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Quick question

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
I've seen a metal mesh screen and IMO, they only remove low flying birds and small children. Pretty much useless! I use ONLY paper filters and mout them higher than the carburettor, usually on the radiator stays. That started because the air filters you guys use won't fit here.
The original AirMaze wire mesh gets coated with oil after cleaning. By the amount of dirt it collects, it is definitely doing something. My original element is 90 years old and still works well.
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Old 01-01-2020, 07:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Quick question

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Originally Posted by Standing Elk View Post
I am sure this has been hashed out before but I am curious as to your preference between using the (paper) Air Maze filter and the K&N cartridge that fits the Air Maze housing? Thanks
Ive gone full original. No filter at all. If my engines makes it to breakage due to ingested dust I will feel mighty accomplished. Ive got a fresh bore. Found .017 off of stock bore when I investigated for the first time. All in the centers. The top showed slightly over stock and the bottom below rings stock size. 1940 production diamond block.
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Old 01-01-2020, 09:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Quick question

The best filter is called "None".
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Old 01-03-2020, 10:35 AM   #11
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Quick question

The fact that so many model A's have survived without an air filter tells me that they are not necessary in most conditions . Even the mesh type filters cause rich operation . Model A's didn't come with an air filter . I have run model A's for sixty years without an air filter without problems .
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Quick question

I have a K&N E-3050 on both my Model A's and have 35,000 miles of trouble free service. Read the below information and make your own decision.

Info from MODEL-A.org

http://www.model-a.org/filtering_air_into_carb.html

Carburetors, with their air input totally unfiltered, suck in all kinds of stuff that can do damage to your engine. Fine silica dust and powdered rock are the most common materials that are pulled in and cause engine wear.

The Air Maze, metal gauze unit (sold by most Model A Ford part distributors; shown on the left) prevents large particles from entering, but does nothing to filter out the small stuff that most commonly causes the damage.

The next logical step is to try paper element cartridges. However, you have to be careful not to restrict the air to fuel balance of the carburetor. The level of air resistances varies depending on the size, surface area, and the physical attributes of the filtering material.

An undersized filter restricts airflow into the carburetor and lowers the pressure at the choke. These consequences make the fuel-air ratio higher (too much gasoline for the airflow reduction) and also lower the velocity of fuel flow through the Venturi (reducing engine responsiveness to throttling). The result is carbon deposits in your engine from the rich mixture.

One needs to consider the air volume needs for a nominal 200 cubic inch engine at 2,800 RPM and the carburetors air intake area of 1.767 square inches. You also have to consider how much to oversize the filter element to allow for clogging up to say 30%. With some rough calculations, you'll find that you need a large filter.

I've read material from multiple sources, which say: "automotive engineers regularly size air filter surface areas at one-half an engines cubic inch capacity", which is 100 square inches for the nominal Model A engine.

I have found paper filters clog up quickly, restrict flow, and retain gasoline from drippy carburetors for a long time. So, I prefer K&N washable, oilable and reusable filters. Using published K&N formulas, I calculated the filter required for a typical Model A engine. If your engine has been modified to increase the cubic inches, you will want to adapt my following calculations.

First, I calculated the Effective Filtering Area for the physical attributes of K&N filter materials:

200 Cubic inches displacement times 2,800 RPM divided by 20,839, which is the factor for K&N Filter Attributes = 26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area.

Then, I calculated the minimum length for a filter to fit in an Air Maze housing:

26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area divided by (3 & 1/2 inch Air Maze diameter times 3.14 Pi) plus .75 inches to compensate for the rubber seals on each end of the element = 3.2 inches minimum filter length.

This is significantly longer than the very small air filters commonly seen on many Model A Fords.

K&N offers several filters that can be used with the Air Maze housing.
Part # E-3050 is 3.5 inches long.
Part # E-9257 is 5.5 inches long.
Part # E-2040 is 6.625 inches long.

To provide some margin for the filter getting dirty, before you get around to cleaning it, I would recommend the 5.5 inch long length. I know it is an over kill, but I am currently using the 6.625 inch long one to allow for driving on dusty gravel roads and to extend my time between filter cleaning / re-oiling cycles.

CAUTION: Regardless of any filter that you choose to use, you have to be watchful for a leaky carburetor that can load the filter up with gasoline and be vulnerable to ignition from the exhaust pipe and possibly cause a disastrous fire.

Important notes on the use of Air Maze housings:

When mounting an Air Maze housing onto a Zenith, Model A carburetor, it is important that a lock washer and nut be used to keep the screw from coming loose and allowing the Air Maze housing to fall to the ground. The screw and nut can be seen at the top of each photo.

To minimize air leaks at the point where an Air Maze connects to the Zenith, Model A carburetor, I use an o-ring (1-7/8" OD and 1-1/2" ID) on the carburetors air intake.

To use a long filter in the Air Maze, the large wing bolt needs to be replaced with a long 1/4 - 20 bolt or with a threaded rod, with nuts and lock washers.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Quick question

I use E-9257 as listed by 160B. One can make a down draft adapter with some copper elbows, rubber sleeve and hose clamps. eliminating the Air Maze.

Last edited by duke36; 01-03-2020 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Quick question


160B! Not very scientific - more of what's available and can be fitted to the carburettor
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Quick question

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160B! Not very scientific - more of what's available and can be fitted to the carburettor
Not sure what your are saying.

The K&N air filter fits on the air maze air filter replacing the original wire mesh filter and the CFM calculations are on the web site. I also did the calculations my self, so not sure what point you are trying to make?
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Quick question

You'll need to rejet your carb if you run an air filter, as they were not stock at all.

If you have your engine (splash) pans installed as factory, there isn't a need for a filter.
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Quick question

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Originally Posted by jwilliams81 View Post
You'll need to rejet your carb if you run an air filter, as they were not stock at all.

If you have your engine (splash) pans installed as factory, there isn't a need for a filter.
Sorry, I can't agree with either of those statements.
No need to rejet if you vent the float chamber to the throat of the carb between the air filter and the butterfly.
Is there any evidence for that? IMO, splash pans don't stop dust entering the engine bay through the radiator.
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Quick question

Another option if not concerned about cosmetics, is to use a High Boy kit. It places the filter above the level of the carb/intake.
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:17 PM   #19
xelhan
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Default Re: Quick question


Not sure what your are saying.

The K&N air filter fits on the air maze air filter replacing the original wire mesh filter and the CFM calculations are on the web site. I also did the calculations my self, so not sure what point you are trying to make?


Nothing wrong with your calculation and the K&N will fit. It filters, but not very efficient as you can see from the presentation
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Quick question

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

160B! Not very scientific - more of what's available and can be fitted to the carburettor
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

Not sure what your are saying.

The K&N air filter fits on the air maze air filter replacing the original wire mesh filter and the CFM calculations are on the web site. I also did the calculations my self, so not sure what point you are trying to make?


Nothing wrong with your calculation and the K&N will fit. It filters, but not very efficient as you can see from the presentation
First you state "Not very scientific", than you state "It filters, but not very efficient as you can see from the presentation".

I do not see anything in the www.model-a.org/filtering_air_into_carb.html presentation that leads me to understanding "Not very scientific" and or "not very efficient", could you be more specific?
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