The Ford Barn

GB SISSON · 10-02-2018, 10:28 AM

I have a steering box from a '47 1/2 ton that has about 6" of shaft sticking out. I got it with a front frame section in a load of jailbar trucks and parts a few years back. I almost didn't haul that piece, but the owner said it was a really good steering box and I should take it. I have been reading about and testing steering boxes from a few parts trucks etc. The sawn off one really seems nice and tight. Folks I have contacted want 400.00 or so plus shipping both ways for a rebuild. Has anyone here ever mated something like this to their original shaft with a coupler or sleeve? Is it important to have the mast jacket intact? This 'driver/farm truck' won't be going to shows or judged for original. It just has a badly worn steering box. Thanks, GB

JSeery · 10-02-2018, 10:33 AM

Very common to cut the shafts to make shipping the steering box easier. And fairly simple to reweld the box to the upper shaft. I like to weld the two pieces together and then weld a collar over the joint. The shaft does have to be welded straight and with high quality welds.

Andy · 10-02-2018, 11:04 AM

The shafts can be removed from the box and replaced. They just press on the worm. One consideration is getting the keyway in the right place. I made a coupling sleeve that was a light press fit on the shaft. The sleeve was welded to the stub then the new end could be accurately positioned and then welded.

Mart · 10-02-2018, 11:14 AM

I've welded shafts together many times. Deeply V the join and then mig it. Make sure it is clamped straight using angle iron, and remains straight after welding. The weld is only subject to the loads you can put in by hand, so any competent weld is easily strong enough. The tubing is very heavy wall and excellent quality material.

Check this post: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...3#post-8446254

Unfortunately I did not take a pic when then the tube was bevelled. Just imagine it bevelled all the way through at 45 degrees and held slightly apart when welding.

Mart.

revkev6 · 10-02-2018, 11:32 AM

as jseery and Mart said, it's really pretty easy. the f100 box in my 32 was cut like that. paid $25 for it because of it. I needed to cut it anyway to run the steering wheel I wanted. clean up the cut, V out both ends and clamp it on a piece of angle iron. if you aren't 100% positive of your welding ability, i would bring it to a welder. if you prep it well and everything is nice and clean and in a fixture to weld, usually it's damn cheap. welding is like bodywork, usually the prep is the time consuming part.when I had a 110v welder I didn't use it on steering parts... I now have a tig so this sort of thing is a no brainer.

GB SISSON · 10-02-2018, 11:54 AM

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Thanks! I am a competent welder and have a 220v mig. I like the angle iron for staying straight too. Just leave the bottom end of the mast jacket cut off?

Mart · 10-02-2018, 11:56 AM

Use the mast jacket and remaining shaft from your worn out box????

Mart.

Pete · 10-02-2018, 12:24 PM

Welding on any steering component is NOT the way to go! Ask your insurance company.
Even if it was approved, mig welding would be the last way to do it.

It is a relatively easy job to remove the cut shaft and install a new one or make a new one from scratch.

JM 35 Sedan · 10-02-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Welding on any steering component is NOT the way to go! Ask your insurance company.
Even if it was approved, mig welding would be the last way to do it.

It is a relatively easy job to remove the cut shaft and install a new one or make a new one from scratch.

X2, I agree with you Pete. It's not at all difficult to press a shaft out of the worm gear, and press another one back in. I've done this many times for my own projects, and for other Barners. NealinCA did a post with pictures on his method, and I believe I did a post as well showing a slightly different method and a very simple tool that I made for this purpose.

51 MERC-CT · 10-02-2018, 01:52 PM

Borgeson makes a sleeve for the purpose that can be welded or pinned.
I pinned the last one I did.
Using the sleeve eliminates the butt weld.

http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/produc...&cat=24&page=2

revkev6 · 10-02-2018, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Welding on any steering component is NOT the way to go! Ask your insurance company.
Even if it was approved, mig welding would be the last way to do it.

It is a relatively easy job to remove the cut shaft and install a new one or make a new one from scratch.

Nothing wrong with mig welding mild steel tubing, it's when you get into chromoly that you get into trouble with a mig. lots of welded in steering components on race cars these days.

Ironic to me that the guy that builds MONSTER street flatheads thinks a proper welded shaft is risky lol

Pete · 10-02-2018, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revkev6

Nothing wrong with mig welding mild steel tubing, it's when you get into chromoly that you get into trouble with a mig. lots of welded in steering components on race cars these days.

Ironic to me that the guy that builds MONSTER street flatheads thinks a proper welded shaft is risky lol

Have you ever run a qualitative analysis on the steering shaft material?
It is NOT mild steel.

Check the rules of sanctioning race associations. NO WELDED STEERING COMPONENTS.

I haven't built a street engine for 40 years.

Mart · 10-02-2018, 04:31 PM

Hard to reply without seeming like a smartarse.
I would still propose that in GB's application, a welded shaft would be perfectly adequate. I'm not going to argue the toss, it's up to the individual to decide. If there is a sanctioning body that rules it out, that's a different matter.

Mart.

tubman · 10-02-2018, 04:54 PM

Hey JB! Where are you going to be racing your truck? I wanna come and watch!

Pete · 10-02-2018, 05:53 PM

You would not be joking about it if he hit you head on because his steering shaft broke.
His insurance company would just laugh at him.
Your insurance would just pay your next of kin.

GB SISSON · 10-02-2018, 08:15 PM

The shaft is 3/4" diameter. A perimeter weld would be that laid out flat. Is that 3.14 x 3/4" sheared sideways? I consider myself a pretty tough
65 year old, but I doubt I could shear a weld (longitudinally) like that even with my brawn. A tie rod or drag link is after the multiplier, but steering shaft is just that.... A steering shaft. My dad was an insurance guy and I loved him to pieces, but if I listened to every caution he ever gave me I would be cowering in a closet right now, afraid of everything instead of having a great time 'simply messing about in old vehicles'. The quote is from Kenneth Graham, author of 'Wind in the Willows'. And it was boats. Either way, I like to take other people's old worn out stuff that I can get cheap and fix it up so I can enjoy it after work and on weekends. I may lose my life's fortune because of an accident, but it won't be because of a failed weld. Or kingpins reamed with sandpaper in a slotted handle of a wooden spoon. Nascar is Nascar. Old trucks on a 40 max mph island is another thing altogether. BTW..., Who in their right mind insures the 'RATROD ' community? They do well publicized cross country runs touted in their magazines...... Hagertys?????

cas3 · 10-02-2018, 08:58 PM

i have welded several, and dont loose any sleep over it. however, the shaft is easy to find and easy to replace. welded stuff is usually for a custom application

GB SISSON · 10-02-2018, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3

i have welded several, and dont loose any sleep over it. however, the shaft is easy to find and easy to replace. welded stuff is usually for a custom application

cas 3 , the voice of reason. Were you a middle child?

JM 35 Sedan · 10-02-2018, 10:34 PM

I'll post some key threads here on how folks have pressed these worm gears on/off their respective steering shafts. The final decision on how you want to go is totally your call, no one is twisting your arm to go either way. Again, your call.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=steering+worm

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...sing+worm+gear

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ring+worm+gear

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ring+worm+gear

RalphM · 10-03-2018, 08:43 AM

Here’s an idea for your GB. I mated an F1 box and about 10 inches of steering shaft to a custom built solid shaft that was splined on top for a 41 Pontiac steering wheel. Both shafts were machined with flat sides at the joint and then I used a solid ( no u joint) double D Coupler To join them tighten the setscrews in the Coupler, and for extra measure welded the coupler to the shafts.

10-02-2018, 10:28 AM	#1
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,930	Sawn off steering shaft I have a steering box from a '47 1/2 ton that has about 6" of shaft sticking out. I got it with a front frame section in a load of jailbar trucks and parts a few years back. I almost didn't haul that piece, but the owner said it was a really good steering box and I should take it. I have been reading about and testing steering boxes from a few parts trucks etc. The sawn off one really seems nice and tight. Folks I have contacted want 400.00 or so plus shipping both ways for a rebuild. Has anyone here ever mated something like this to their original shaft with a coupler or sleeve? Is it important to have the mast jacket intact? This 'driver/farm truck' won't be going to shows or judged for original. It just has a badly worn steering box. Thanks, GB __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

10-02-2018, 10:33 AM	#2
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Very common to cut the shafts to make shipping the steering box easier. And fairly simple to reweld the box to the upper shaft. I like to weld the two pieces together and then weld a collar over the joint. The shaft does have to be welded straight and with high quality welds.

10-02-2018, 11:04 AM	#3
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: Sawn off steering shaft The shafts can be removed from the box and replaced. They just press on the worm. One consideration is getting the keyway in the right place. I made a coupling sleeve that was a light press fit on the shaft. The sleeve was welded to the stub then the new end could be accurately positioned and then welded.

10-02-2018, 11:14 AM	#4
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Sawn off steering shaft I've welded shafts together many times. Deeply V the join and then mig it. Make sure it is clamped straight using angle iron, and remains straight after welding. The weld is only subject to the loads you can put in by hand, so any competent weld is easily strong enough. The tubing is very heavy wall and excellent quality material. Check this post: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...3#post-8446254 Unfortunately I did not take a pic when then the tube was bevelled. Just imagine it bevelled all the way through at 45 degrees and held slightly apart when welding. Mart. Last edited by Mart; 10-02-2018 at 11:21 AM.

10-02-2018, 11:32 AM	#5
revkev6 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: western Mass Posts: 365	Re: Sawn off steering shaft as jseery and Mart said, it's really pretty easy. the f100 box in my 32 was cut like that. paid $25 for it because of it. I needed to cut it anyway to run the steering wheel I wanted. clean up the cut, V out both ends and clamp it on a piece of angle iron. if you aren't 100% positive of your welding ability, i would bring it to a welder. if you prep it well and everything is nice and clean and in a fixture to weld, usually it's damn cheap. welding is like bodywork, usually the prep is the time consuming part.when I had a 110v welder I didn't use it on steering parts... I now have a tig so this sort of thing is a no brainer.

10-02-2018, 11:54 AM	#6
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,930	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks! I am a competent welder and have a 220v mig. I like the angle iron for staying straight too. Just leave the bottom end of the mast jacket cut off? __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

10-02-2018, 11:56 AM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Use the mast jacket and remaining shaft from your worn out box???? Mart.

10-02-2018, 12:24 PM	#8
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Welding on any steering component is NOT the way to go! Ask your insurance company. Even if it was approved, mig welding would be the last way to do it. It is a relatively easy job to remove the cut shaft and install a new one or make a new one from scratch.

10-02-2018, 01:52 PM	#10
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Borgeson makes a sleeve for the purpose that can be welded or pinned. I pinned the last one I did. Using the sleeve eliminates the butt weld. http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/produc...&cat=24&page=2 __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

10-02-2018, 04:31 PM	#13
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Hard to reply without seeming like a smartarse. I would still propose that in GB's application, a welded shaft would be perfectly adequate. I'm not going to argue the toss, it's up to the individual to decide. If there is a sanctioning body that rules it out, that's a different matter. Mart.

10-02-2018, 04:54 PM	#14
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,316	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Hey JB! Where are you going to be racing your truck? I wanna come and watch!

10-02-2018, 05:53 PM	#15
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Sawn off steering shaft You would not be joking about it if he hit you head on because his steering shaft broke. His insurance company would just laugh at him. Your insurance would just pay your next of kin.

10-02-2018, 08:15 PM	#16
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,930	Re: Sawn off steering shaft The shaft is 3/4" diameter. A perimeter weld would be that laid out flat. Is that 3.14 x 3/4" sheared sideways? I consider myself a pretty tough 65 year old, but I doubt I could shear a weld (longitudinally) like that even with my brawn. A tie rod or drag link is after the multiplier, but steering shaft is just that.... A steering shaft. My dad was an insurance guy and I loved him to pieces, but if I listened to every caution he ever gave me I would be cowering in a closet right now, afraid of everything instead of having a great time 'simply messing about in old vehicles'. The quote is from Kenneth Graham, author of 'Wind in the Willows'. And it was boats. Either way, I like to take other people's old worn out stuff that I can get cheap and fix it up so I can enjoy it after work and on weekends. I may lose my life's fortune because of an accident, but it won't be because of a failed weld. Or kingpins reamed with sandpaper in a slotted handle of a wooden spoon. Nascar is Nascar. Old trucks on a 40 max mph island is another thing altogether. BTW..., Who in their right mind insures the 'RATROD ' community? They do well publicized cross country runs touted in their magazines...... Hagertys????? __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

10-02-2018, 08:58 PM	#17
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,574	Re: Sawn off steering shaft i have welded several, and dont loose any sleep over it. however, the shaft is easy to find and easy to replace. welded stuff is usually for a custom application

10-02-2018, 10:34 PM	#19
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Sawn off steering shaft I'll post some key threads here on how folks have pressed these worm gears on/off their respective steering shafts. The final decision on how you want to go is totally your call, no one is twisting your arm to go either way. Again, your call. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=steering+worm https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...sing+worm+gear https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ring+worm+gear https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ring+worm+gear __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 10-03-2018 at 09:22 AM.

10-03-2018, 08:43 AM	#20
RalphM Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 2,651	Re: Sawn off steering shaft Here’s an idea for your GB. I mated an F1 box and about 10 inches of steering shaft to a custom built solid shaft that was splined on top for a 41 Pontiac steering wheel. Both shafts were machined with flat sides at the joint and then I used a solid ( no u joint) double D Coupler To join them tighten the setscrews in the Coupler, and for extra measure welded the coupler to the shafts.