Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2016, 09:24 AM   #1
drealbmw
Junior Member
 
drealbmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 5
Exclamation Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Three weeks ago, my brother became the proud owner of a 1930 Model A for the first time. So everything on this old car is new to us.



It's a beautiful car, but we have a problem: fan belt squeal. In fact, the problem is so bad that he asked me for help.

The mystery began when we tried a new belt. The noise stopped, but the alternator stopped charging, too. In fact, it started discharging!

After 4 days of fiddling, we found that:

1) A new 1/2" belt stopped the noise, but the alternator no longer charged.

2) A new 5/8" belt charged the alternator, but the squealing was unbearable. If we thought the noise was bad at idle, when we turned on the lights and the a/c, the noise became 100 times worse.

We have tried everything:

1) New belts
2) New alternators
3) Soap
4) WD-40
5) Dressing
6) Circuit tracing

Now we are considering a mismatch of pulleys. Is that even a thing?

The crankshaft pulley looks like it was made for a 1/2" fan belt. The alternator pulley looks like it was made for a wider belt, such as 5/8".

We even made a clay/putty cast of the two pulleys to see if we could find a difference. We did. You can see it on this YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlhYWdAN0Ak

We will appreciate any and all help about what to do next. We're running out of ideas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160819_170514.jpg (80.1 KB, 431 views)
drealbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 09:32 AM   #2
Anteek29
Senior Member
 
Anteek29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 984
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

I suspect a bad bearing in the alternator or water pump...can you turn those pulleys freely by hand with the belt disengaged?
__________________
Alan
1929 Special Coupe
1941 Pick-Up
1955 Victoria
Anteek29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-09-2016, 09:36 AM   #3
drealbmw
Junior Member
 
drealbmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 5
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Yes, we can turn the pulleys freely by hand when we pull the belts.

There's no drag on the pulleys and hardly any play.
drealbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 09:44 AM   #4
ian Simpson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 709
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

IMHO you need to replace the alternator pulley with a 1/2 inch one.
ian Simpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 09:47 AM   #5
Anteek29
Senior Member
 
Anteek29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 984
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

You Stated:

A new 5/8" belt charged the alternator, but the squealing was unbearable. If we thought the noise was bad at idle, when we turned on the lights and the a/c, the noise became 100 times worse.

OK...tells me the alternator is where the problem lies because the noise is in direct proportion to the electrical load. Swap it out.
__________________
Alan
1929 Special Coupe
1941 Pick-Up
1955 Victoria
Anteek29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 09:50 AM   #6
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
When I put on a leakless water pump, picked up a SQUEEL for a few days. I "think" the shaft was too long, where it hits the boss in the head???
Bill W.
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 10:22 AM   #7
james hitchcock
Senior Member
 
james hitchcock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Visalia Ca.
Posts: 617
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Is by any chance the belt adjusted too loose. I don't have this problem on my A, but I have a 79 pick up and it did exactly the same thing you described when the belt was loose. Took up the slack and I could hear again.
james hitchcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 10:33 AM   #8
Glenn C.
Senior Member
 
Glenn C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Didsbury Alberta
Posts: 838
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

As the pulley on the alternator is quite a bit smaller than the original style generator pulley, you need to install a cogged or notched belt, as it will conform much better to the smaller pulley. At driving speed of the Model A, that smaller Alternator pulley is turning at about 7000 RPM. Don't overtighten the fan belt as it will tear-up the water pump shaft and bushings in quick time.

How do I know ? Don't ask.
Glenn C. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 10:35 AM   #9
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

the correct belt width is a full 5/8. Some belts are 19/32, this will not work.
Also, get a cogged belt, it will go around the alternator pulley better.
It is squealing because your battery is low and the alternator is trying to work hard to re-charge the battery, and the belt is slipping.
Recharge the battery with a charger. Once the battery is full up the alternator will just be topping off the battery.
The soap you put on there is only gonna make things much worse, get rid of all traces of it. It will contaminate any new belt you put on there, get it off the other pulleys.
A good brand of a cogged belt is a Gatorback.
Sorry I do not have a PN
You may have to go on Amazon to get the belt you want
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 10:39 AM   #10
goodoldvic
Senior Member
 
goodoldvic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey shore
Posts: 257
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Put a stock generator and EVR on it.
goodoldvic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 10:50 AM   #11
drealbmw
Junior Member
 
drealbmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 5
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

We have always used a cogged belt on the alternator. We're thinking about getting an old-style V belt to see if that makes any difference.

We've tried adjusting the belt every which way.
Too tight.
Too loose.
Just right.

The only way to lose the squeal is to use the 1/2" belt. But then the alternator doesn't charge.

We get 14.1 volts with the 5/8" belt.
We get 12.2 volts with the 1/2" belt.
We get 11.7 volts with the 1/2" belt and the headlights on and the a/c on.

So I wonder if this could be the problem.



There is a huge difference between the size of the "valley" for the crankcase pulley and the alternator pulley. (I just jammed plumber's putty into the pulley to get these casts.)

But I have no idea which pulley to change, or what size I would need. I don't even know how to measure a pulley. Or if this would make a difference anyway. Aren't they all the same? A pulley is just a pulley, I would think.

And I don't want to just replace parts willy-nilly. Although I probably will end up doing that.
drealbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 11:02 AM   #12
d.j. moordigian
Senior Member
 
d.j. moordigian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Quote:
Originally Posted by drealbmw View Post
We have always used a cogged belt on the alternator. We're thinking about getting an old-style V belt to see if that makes any difference.

We've tried adjusting the belt every which way.
Too tight.
Too loose.
Just right.

The only way to lose the squeal is to use the 1/2" belt. But then the alternator doesn't charge.

We get 14.1 volts with the 5/8" belt.
We get 12.2 volts with the 1/2" belt.
We get 11.7 volts with the 1/2" belt and the headlights on and the a/c on.

So I wonder if this could be the problem.



There is a huge difference between the size of the "valley" for the crankcase pulley and the alternator pulley. (I just jammed plumber's putty into the pulley to get these casts.)

But I have no idea which pulley to change, or what size I would need. I don't even know how to measure a pulley. Or if this would make a difference anyway. Aren't they all the same? A pulley is just a pulley, I would think.

And I don't want to just replace parts willy-nilly. Although I probably will end up doing that.
Duhhhh,....the 1/2" belt is running in the root of the pulley's,..NOT ON THE
SIDES. That's why it's not charging..
d.j. moordigian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 11:09 AM   #13
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,712
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

To me that does not sound like a belt slipping, sound more like something
wrong with the alternator.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 12:46 PM   #14
CarlG
Senior Member
 
CarlG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 9,109
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

You mentioned "A/C" ?? Didn't see the compressor in the video.

Anyway, like others have said, the noise sounds like alternator malfunction, not belt noise. Also, the cogged belt is a must. Gates BX40 (or BX42) would be my choice in this instance.
__________________
Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owner's Club
CarlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 01:11 PM   #15
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlG View Post
You mentioned "A/C" ?? Didn't see the compressor in the video.

Anyway, like others have said, the noise sounds like alternator malfunction, not belt noise. Also, the cogged belt is a must. Gates BX40 (or BX42) would be my choice in this instance.
An alternator with 1 bad DIODE, can sound like a bad BEARING, but that doesn't sound like your noise.
Bill Quiet
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 01:12 PM   #16
C26Pinelake
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto.
Posts: 5,800
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

He said he already tried a new alternator. Wayne
C26Pinelake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 01:32 PM   #17
richsfords
Senior Member
 
richsfords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 140
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

just solved the same problem, eye ball the belt from the generator side is it align with water pump and crank, I had to move the water pump shaft out just a touch to line up, it had the leakless pump with the adjustable collar with with an allen wrench. when installed it was off just a touch. take a look just for S*** and Giggles. worked for me. and all is quite on the western front.
good luck
__________________
Richard in New Bern.
When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it” - Henry Ford
richsfords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 04:12 PM   #18
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

The small 1/2" is most likely riding on the bottom of the alternator groove, so it's slipping and not spinning the alternator fast enough to make the noise. I'm wondering if you don't have a defective alternator.

Put a 4 to 6 amp battery charger on the battery for about 6 hours, then try the wide belt and see if you still get the noise.

Belts not only need to be the correct width, but the angle of the V must be correct also.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 05:43 PM   #19
Glenn C.
Senior Member
 
Glenn C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Didsbury Alberta
Posts: 838
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

My terminology on this may be wrong, but Tom may be on to something here. We hope you are trying to use a belt designed for the purpose i.e. Automotive belt, not a fractional type belt that would normally be used for a different purpose, such as a furnace or other mechanical type equipment.
Glenn C. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 06:08 PM   #20
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,712
Default Re: Squealing fan belt driving me CRAZY

Is the crank pulley double groove as it looks like the A/C has its own belt.
Could you post a picture of the A/C side of the engine looking at the crank pulley?

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47 AM.