The Ford Barn

Rustynutz52 · 07-11-2016, 08:19 PM

I am thinking of having James Peterson do a conversion to solid state electronics on my original 1939 voltage regulator. battery seems to get over charged on long drives. Hoping to eliminate this issue. Any thoughts. Regulator is original small square style with no ground strap.
Thanks

Terry,OH · 07-12-2016, 06:56 AM

There are a couple of different styles of the early voltage regulator. I am not familiar with all of them, most do have a ground wire to the metal case, especially if the regulator is mounted to the firewall with the rubber bushings. The rubber bushings 91A-10610 will electrically isolate the regulator case from the chassis. The regulator circuits require a ground path and ground wire 91A-10611 was connected to the regulator case by a small screw and to the mounting screw that passes through the rubber bushing 10610.

Rustynutz52 · 07-12-2016, 06:09 PM

The one on my car has no ground strap. I assume it is grounding it self to the firewall through the mounting screws.

Rustynutz52 · 07-12-2016, 06:11 PM

Jseery, not sure this is me as I only have this original 39. I had Rhode Island make a new harness for it. Wiring is as good as it gets.
Mike

JSeery · 07-12-2016, 07:37 PM

Sorry Rusty I have threads mixed up! Been doing to many things today.

1949f1 · 07-12-2016, 08:54 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Different guy than the 39 pickup that was Randy1944.

JSeery · 07-12-2016, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

Different guy than the 39 pickup that was Randy1944.

LOL, my screw up! I will delete the responses. Thanks 1949f1

koates · 07-13-2016, 04:00 AM

Rusty, I cant see any reason why you should have an electronic regulator modification if your original voltage regulator has its voltage set correctly as per the original specs. Have you measured the voltage at the regulator generator and battery terminals with a few engine revs up ? You need to do this to establish what is going on. Anything above 7.8 volts would be getting a bit high. 7.5 volts would be a nice happy medium setting which will not overcharge your battery. No good just guessing and jumping into swapping components. Regards, Kevin.

Rustynutz52 · 07-13-2016, 06:03 AM

Kevin, I think you are right, I should figure out what exactly is going on before replacing parts. The issue is the battery wants to boil one of the cells on longer runs. on short runs It will weep acid out of the same vent. I am assuming this could mean one of two things either a bad battery or that it is getting too much charge. This had me thinking it is probably the regulator not cutting out and allowing it to charge to much. I assume on checking the battery voltage I just put a test lead on the pos and neg? On the voltage regulator how does one check voltage output? I have three terminals Arm / Field / Battery. Also how do I check generator output? Does the rpms of the car matter? I have been told these 39 regulators are problematic. I have an analog voltage meter I bought per some of the guys on this site. Just don't know what I am doing with it. New to this thing!!!

Thanks for you help

4dFord/SC · 07-13-2016, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustynutz52

New to this thing!!!

Seeing that you are in Lake Wylie, I suggest you hook up with Regional Group #152 of the Early Ford V-8 Club of America in Cherryville, NC (http://www.earlyfordv8.org/Regional_Club_Directory.cfm). I'm sure they have knowledgeable members who will be glad to advise and assist you.

Enjoy your new project

flatheadmurre · 07-13-2016, 06:40 AM

Measure what voltage you have over the battery with engine at running speed.
Take a hydrometer and check if the cells in the battery is uneven.
From that you would be able to figure out if it´s the battery or regulator that needs attention.

Kurt in NJ · 07-13-2016, 06:49 AM

If only one cell is having the problem it could be the battery,
how full are you filling the cell----overfilled will cause leakage, only fill cells to the top of the plates before charge---the level rises as battery gets fully charged---then it should only be filled till it forms the "eye'----

Recognize when the electrolyte is at its maximum level. The maximum safe fluid level is just touching the bottom of the filler tubes.

Most filler tubes have a pair of slots in the side somewhere near the bottom of the tube. This causes the meniscus (the little bit of liquid that bends up near the edge of the tube) to have a distinctive eye-shape if the fluid is touching the filler tube, whereas there is no meniscus if the fluid is below the bottom of the filler tube.
The eye-shaped meniscus is designed as a signal to stop filling. You may need to use a flashlight to see the fluid level and the presence or absence of the meniscus clearly.

to test charging system /regulator operation hook your volt meter to the battery and go for a drive ---the 40ford listing I have is 6.8-7.1 volts, there are more tests using ammeters and load resistances to adjust other componets of the regulator, a generator regulator also has to limit the max amperage the generator makes (unless it is a 3 brush generator,then it is done by brush adjustment(is your generator a 2 brush, or a 3 brush generator ---your description of "small square" tends to make me wonder if you havew a 2 unit regulator---only 2 "releys" in it instead of the 3 unit regulator later cars have----does your generator only have small slits that you can see the bruahes through (2 brush) or a cover band over the brushes with a large opening exposing the brushes when removed(3 brush)

hook the volt meter to the battery, do for a drive and then tell us what voltaghe readings you gewt during the drive----both without accesories and lights on, and with everything on

koates · 07-13-2016, 11:43 PM

Rusty, In my post #8 I explained to you how to check the generator/regulator charging voltage. Here it is again (maybe clearer). Connect your analogue voltmeter between a good ground and the generator/armature terminal at the voltage regulator. You could also connect it to the Battery terminal on the regulator for a similar test reading. Rev the engine up to about 2000 Rpm and hold it there for about a minute and a correct voltage reading here would be approx. 7.5 to 7.8 volts.. This could be somewhat dependent on the batteries condition and state of charge. If you are in that ballpark reading then it is OK. IF it is above 8 volts then it is getting a bit high and might tend to overcharge your battery on a longer drive. Kurt stated a voltage reading of 6.8 to 7.1 volts but that reading is for the cut out closing voltage which is a different adjustment inside the regulator and not related to the actual charging voltage. As Kurt said, your regulator could be the square shape two unit regulator which was a transition regulator used mostly in 1939 I think. The more common oblong shaped three unit regulator was used thereafter. It had a current regulator inside which was a better set up. Let me know what your voltage reading is and then we can talk more about it. Make sure you don't have too much electrolyte (water Level ) in the battery. About 1/4" above the plates is high enough.. These voltage regulators are tricky to repair and adjust so unless you really understand the operation of it then don't play with it. Regards, Kevin.

Rustynutz52 · 07-17-2016, 10:03 AM

I just ran some test and came up with the following readings
When hooked up to the arm terminal and a good ground, I am getting the following volt readings
6.8 Idle
7.2 to 7.5 With RPM

On Battery
6.5 Idle
7.2 RPM

This is ruining an optima I had in another one of my cars. When I checked the ford script battery the water was lower then the tops of the fins. Any thoughts. I am stating to think a bad cell on battery.

flatheadmurre · 07-17-2016, 12:01 PM

Your regulator seems to do just fine and is not the reason the battery is boiling.
The regulator is even set a bit low in my opinion.
So do a hydrometer check of the cells and se if they are uneven.

sidevalve8ba · 07-17-2016, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

Rusty, In my post #8 I explained to you how to check the generator/regulator charging voltage. Here it is again (maybe clearer). Connect your analogue voltmeter between a good ground and the generator/armature terminal at the voltage regulator. You could also connect it to the Battery terminal on the regulator for a similar test reading. Rev the engine up to about 2000 Rpm and hold it there for about a minute and a correct voltage reading here would be approx. 7.5 to 7.8 volts.. This could be somewhat dependent on the batteries condition and state of charge. If you are in that ballpark reading then it is OK. IF it is above 8 volts then it is getting a bit high and might tend to overcharge your battery on a longer drive. Kurt stated a voltage reading of 6.8 to 7.1 volts but that reading is for the cut out closing voltage which is a different adjustment inside the regulator and not related to the actual charging voltage. As Kurt said, your regulator could be the square shape two unit regulator which was a transition regulator used mostly in 1939 I think. The more common oblong shaped three unit regulator was used thereafter. It had a current regulator inside which was a better set up. Let me know what your voltage reading is and then we can talk more about it. Make sure you don't have too much electrolyte (water Level ) in the battery. About 1/4" above the plates is high enough.. These voltage regulators are tricky to repair and adjust so unless you really understand the operation of it then don't play with it. Regards, Kevin.

Kevin,
At the risk of hi-jacking this thread, are you recommending the use of an analog voltmeter over a digital one? Thanks.

koates · 07-17-2016, 07:46 PM

Yes, I would normally use an analogue volt meter on an older car (pre 1960s) for a nice steady reading and also an analogue ammeter. These were included in the old type automotive generator test sets. Some digital meters tend to jump around on their readings. This is caused by the RF (radio frequency) transmitted by old style spark plug leads and also generators and points type voltage regulators. Rusty, your voltage readings would seem to be OK and would in no way cause your optima battery (or any battery) to be damaged or overcharged. The water level in you Ford script battery is to low if the tops of the plates are showing. Level should be approx. 1/4" above the plates. To test your battery check it with a hydrometer and if it reads charged in all cells then have it load tested with a proper battery load tester at about 300 amps for about 10 seconds to see if it holds up OK. The battery must be fully charged before load testing. Regards, Kevin.

07-12-2016, 06:56 AM	#2
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,743	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion There are a couple of different styles of the early voltage regulator. I am not familiar with all of them, most do have a ground wire to the metal case, especially if the regulator is mounted to the firewall with the rubber bushings. The rubber bushings 91A-10610 will electrically isolate the regulator case from the chassis. The regulator circuits require a ground path and ground wire 91A-10611 was connected to the regulator case by a small screw and to the mounting screw that passes through the rubber bushing 10610.

07-12-2016, 06:09 PM	#3
Rustynutz52 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina Posts: 76	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion The one on my car has no ground strap. I assume it is grounding it self to the firewall through the mounting screws.

07-12-2016, 06:11 PM	#4
Rustynutz52 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina Posts: 76	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Jseery, not sure this is me as I only have this original 39. I had Rhode Island make a new harness for it. Wiring is as good as it gets. Mike

07-12-2016, 07:37 PM	#5
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Sorry Rusty I have threads mixed up! Been doing to many things today. Last edited by JSeery; 07-14-2016 at 07:19 AM.

07-12-2016, 08:54 PM	#6
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Different guy than the 39 pickup that was Randy1944.

07-11-2016, 08:19 PM	#1
Rustynutz52 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina Posts: 76	1939 ford voltage regulator conversion I am thinking of having James Peterson do a conversion to solid state electronics on my original 1939 voltage regulator. battery seems to get over charged on long drives. Hoping to eliminate this issue. Any thoughts. Regulator is original small square style with no ground strap. Thanks

07-13-2016, 04:00 AM	#8
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,078	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Rusty, I cant see any reason why you should have an electronic regulator modification if your original voltage regulator has its voltage set correctly as per the original specs. Have you measured the voltage at the regulator generator and battery terminals with a few engine revs up ? You need to do this to establish what is going on. Anything above 7.8 volts would be getting a bit high. 7.5 volts would be a nice happy medium setting which will not overcharge your battery. No good just guessing and jumping into swapping components. Regards, Kevin.

07-13-2016, 06:03 AM	#9
Rustynutz52 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina Posts: 76	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Kevin, I think you are right, I should figure out what exactly is going on before replacing parts. The issue is the battery wants to boil one of the cells on longer runs. on short runs It will weep acid out of the same vent. I am assuming this could mean one of two things either a bad battery or that it is getting too much charge. This had me thinking it is probably the regulator not cutting out and allowing it to charge to much. I assume on checking the battery voltage I just put a test lead on the pos and neg? On the voltage regulator how does one check voltage output? I have three terminals Arm / Field / Battery. Also how do I check generator output? Does the rpms of the car matter? I have been told these 39 regulators are problematic. I have an analog voltage meter I bought per some of the guys on this site. Just don't know what I am doing with it. New to this thing!!! Thanks for you help

07-13-2016, 06:40 AM	#11
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Measure what voltage you have over the battery with engine at running speed. Take a hydrometer and check if the cells in the battery is uneven. From that you would be able to figure out if it´s the battery or regulator that needs attention.

07-13-2016, 06:49 AM	#12
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion If only one cell is having the problem it could be the battery, how full are you filling the cell----overfilled will cause leakage, only fill cells to the top of the plates before charge---the level rises as battery gets fully charged---then it should only be filled till it forms the "eye'---- Recognize when the electrolyte is at its maximum level. The maximum safe fluid level is just touching the bottom of the filler tubes. Most filler tubes have a pair of slots in the side somewhere near the bottom of the tube. This causes the meniscus (the little bit of liquid that bends up near the edge of the tube) to have a distinctive eye-shape if the fluid is touching the filler tube, whereas there is no meniscus if the fluid is below the bottom of the filler tube. The eye-shaped meniscus is designed as a signal to stop filling. You may need to use a flashlight to see the fluid level and the presence or absence of the meniscus clearly. to test charging system /regulator operation hook your volt meter to the battery and go for a drive ---the 40ford listing I have is 6.8-7.1 volts, there are more tests using ammeters and load resistances to adjust other componets of the regulator, a generator regulator also has to limit the max amperage the generator makes (unless it is a 3 brush generator,then it is done by brush adjustment(is your generator a 2 brush, or a 3 brush generator ---your description of "small square" tends to make me wonder if you havew a 2 unit regulator---only 2 "releys" in it instead of the 3 unit regulator later cars have----does your generator only have small slits that you can see the bruahes through (2 brush) or a cover band over the brushes with a large opening exposing the brushes when removed(3 brush) hook the volt meter to the battery, do for a drive and then tell us what voltaghe readings you gewt during the drive----both without accesories and lights on, and with everything on

07-13-2016, 11:43 PM	#13
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,078	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Rusty, In my post #8 I explained to you how to check the generator/regulator charging voltage. Here it is again (maybe clearer). Connect your analogue voltmeter between a good ground and the generator/armature terminal at the voltage regulator. You could also connect it to the Battery terminal on the regulator for a similar test reading. Rev the engine up to about 2000 Rpm and hold it there for about a minute and a correct voltage reading here would be approx. 7.5 to 7.8 volts.. This could be somewhat dependent on the batteries condition and state of charge. If you are in that ballpark reading then it is OK. IF it is above 8 volts then it is getting a bit high and might tend to overcharge your battery on a longer drive. Kurt stated a voltage reading of 6.8 to 7.1 volts but that reading is for the cut out closing voltage which is a different adjustment inside the regulator and not related to the actual charging voltage. As Kurt said, your regulator could be the square shape two unit regulator which was a transition regulator used mostly in 1939 I think. The more common oblong shaped three unit regulator was used thereafter. It had a current regulator inside which was a better set up. Let me know what your voltage reading is and then we can talk more about it. Make sure you don't have too much electrolyte (water Level ) in the battery. About 1/4" above the plates is high enough.. These voltage regulators are tricky to repair and adjust so unless you really understand the operation of it then don't play with it. Regards, Kevin.

07-17-2016, 10:03 AM	#14
Rustynutz52 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina Posts: 76	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion I just ran some test and came up with the following readings When hooked up to the arm terminal and a good ground, I am getting the following volt readings 6.8 Idle 7.2 to 7.5 With RPM On Battery 6.5 Idle 7.2 RPM This is ruining an optima I had in another one of my cars. When I checked the ford script battery the water was lower then the tops of the fins. Any thoughts. I am stating to think a bad cell on battery.

07-17-2016, 12:01 PM	#15
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Your regulator seems to do just fine and is not the reason the battery is boiling. The regulator is even set a bit low in my opinion. So do a hydrometer check of the cells and se if they are uneven.

07-17-2016, 07:46 PM	#17
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,078	Re: 1939 ford voltage regulator conversion Yes, I would normally use an analogue volt meter on an older car (pre 1960s) for a nice steady reading and also an analogue ammeter. These were included in the old type automotive generator test sets. Some digital meters tend to jump around on their readings. This is caused by the RF (radio frequency) transmitted by old style spark plug leads and also generators and points type voltage regulators. Rusty, your voltage readings would seem to be OK and would in no way cause your optima battery (or any battery) to be damaged or overcharged. The water level in you Ford script battery is to low if the tops of the plates are showing. Level should be approx. 1/4" above the plates. To test your battery check it with a hydrometer and if it reads charged in all cells then have it load tested with a proper battery load tester at about 300 amps for about 10 seconds to see if it holds up OK. The battery must be fully charged before load testing. Regards, Kevin.