Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2011, 11:11 AM   #1
RichPA
Senior Member
 
RichPA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: rowland PA
Posts: 186
Default Gas tank cleaning

This is a spin off from the EvapoRust thread.As mentioned, I need to get a lot of rust out of my tank, and there is no local shop that will do it, so if you want something done, do it your self.My plan is to shake out whatever I can,put in 2 gallons of Evaporust and shake well.There are two patches soldered on the bottom, one on each side which I assume is from a prior attempt. I want to unsolder these patches so I can clean the areas that are blocked off by the baffles. So here are the questions that I open to suggestion...Is this a good plan? What can be used to neutralize the gas fumes so that soldering will be safe? I plan on finding an old fashioned soldering iron that you heat with a torch.I do not want to use a sealer and I am going to use the raised strainer that goes on the shut off fitting.Anybody?
RichPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 11:22 AM   #2
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,518
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Pour in some Evapo-Rust as mentioned, then fasten the tank to a cement mixer and let it spin. I've also heard of tying the tank to a tractor tire. I want to make a rotating jig from an old bearing and wheel and use pulleys and a 1/4 H.P. electric motor. There are things other than just gas tanks I'd like to rotate. It could also be used to paint wheels, etc.

Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 03-20-2011 at 11:33 AM.
Tom Wesenberg is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-20-2011, 11:27 AM   #3
RichPA
Senior Member
 
RichPA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: rowland PA
Posts: 186
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I've got the tractor (backhoe) which I can raise the rear wheel up off the ground with the stabilizer arm.
RichPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 11:58 AM   #4
'29wagon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: H.B. California
Posts: 451
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

i just don't want to mess up the tern coating inside . sure it's not as it was when new but . has anyone tested evaporust on lead-zink. what will happen ? doin it myself . no $ to throw out .
'29wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 01:23 PM   #5
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 10,220
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Rich, there are a lot of things you are mentioning that based on my experience are contradicting. First off, if there is a lot of rust, then 2 gallons of Evapo-Rust cannot get to all of the areas to remove rust, --even when the tank is rotated. (10 gallons Yes, ...2 Gallons No!)

2nd, if there are patches that have been soldered on, then likely the protective finish inside (Terne) has been damaged. Matter of fact, if there is any rust inside, the protective coating has been compromised at least in that area. Do not kid yourself into thinking you can remove the rust and then add gasoline and all will be well without a sealer applied to the bare metal. It just won't happen as it will be rusted again in less than 30 days even when saturated in gasoline because all of the oxygen in modern fuels.

As far as purging ("neutralizing") the tank, any good soap & water will do this. We personally use heated caustic but in reality, I am of the opinion there has been more "He said/She said" stories posted here about tanks blowing up than reality. Sure there have been explosions in the past but my experiences have been that even when we have used plain water to flush out a tank and then I stuck a lit torch into the neck, the most that I have experienced is a slight "poof" sound followed by a small flame that quickly burns out. While it might be startling, it won't be life threatening (unless you have a heart attack) Think about it, if you truly flush out a tank with water & soap where there is only a slight amount of water-diluted gasoline left, how much vapor can be present? If you want to disagree with me and my opinion, then choose whatever method you deem as prudent as it is your heath that is at risk.

I have said this before but maybe it bears repeating. Opening up a gas tank like we do it really isn't that complicated, ...its just time consuming to do the job in what I view as correctly. We have a large heated vat that we use to aggitate the tank to soften old ineffective sealers and remove gasoline varnishes/vapors. Afterwards we use a steam cleaner to get a good flush of any remaining residue. Next we have experience doing it where we have messed up a tank or three experimenting to see what works best getting it opened up in the least obvious manner, and we have jigs fabricated to ensure when the tank is reassembled that it is welded back correctly ...and not twisted (easy to weld back together twisted or warped), and we do enough tanks where we can efficiently apply enough sealer to thoroughly coat all of the tank's insides. By this I mean, we actually see in many cut-open "restored" tanks where the tank was rotated and the tank sealer reached the top and bottom of the tank however usually the backside of the baffles were missed in the center, and those rusted areas allowed sediment to re-appear in the fuel causing the very issues to resurface.

I guess bottom line is, I think your plan may be a little flawed based on my experiences but on the other hand, it may be right for you and what you are trying to accomplish.

.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:15 AM   #6
barron
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tarnation, Warshington
Posts: 44
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I also use a strong magnet placed 2" from the gas valve, its no fun blowing thru the gas line if it slows to a trickle..... also the tractor guys will put some pea gravel in the tank and shake the hell out of it for cleaning
barron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:41 AM   #7
Steve Plucker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA
Posts: 6,066
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by barron View Post
I also use a strong magnet placed 2" from the gas valve, its no fun blowing thru the gas line if it slows to a trickle..... also the tractor guys will put some pea gravel in the tank and shake the hell out of it for cleaning
Hey "barron"...Are you in Carnation or Tarnation, Washington?

Pluck
Steve Plucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:56 AM   #8
barron
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tarnation, Warshington
Posts: 44
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

officially I'm in Tolt, but its been named Carnation after the company farm, with a flatlander population of 2500, of which is a high percentage of ignorant folks..... Tarnation
barron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 11:37 AM   #9
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 10,220
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by barron View Post
I also use a strong magnet placed 2" from the gas valve, its no fun blowing thru the gas line if it slows to a trickle..... also the tractor guys will put some pea gravel in the tank and shake the hell out of it for cleaning
In your experience, does that work on Model A tanks too?

.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 12:23 AM   #10
barron
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tarnation, Warshington
Posts: 44
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I've never done it to an A tank, The guy I helped do some oliver tanks, went easy, built an "A" frame, hung a rope down from the top and tied to the tank, filled with maybe a milk carton of pea gravel also we used straight water as this was free.... I thought A and T guys were tight wads, they got nothing on tractor fellas
barron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:37 AM   #11
Terry, NJ
Senior Member
 
Terry, NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks Co, Pa
Posts: 3,476
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

LOL You are Correct! I used the "Spin it on a tractor tire" method, with a hand full of gravel too. The worst part was getting the gravel out afterward. I think next time I'll put the gravel in a sock or something. However, I don't like this method. It's not getting 100%. It's OK as a first pass. But I would want at least a second shot at the rust. I believe in being more thorough.
Terry


Quote:
Originally Posted by barron View Post
I've never done it to an A tank, The guy I helped do some oliver tanks, went easy, built an "A" frame, hung a rope down from the top and tied to the tank, filled with maybe a milk carton of pea gravel also we used straight water as this was free.... I thought A and T guys were tight wads, they got nothing on tractor fellas
Terry, NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:03 AM   #12
jw hash
Senior Member
 
jw hash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Washington
Posts: 2,348
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I had a tank that was in good shape but had a lot of rust in it, we used a tank cleaning a sealer kit by KSB coatings and put the tank in my electric cement mixer along with a gallon of pee gravel and let in run for a while then changed the position of the mixer so it will get other areas in the tank when you finish with cleaning and rinsing we clean the pee gravel out with with a wet vacuum, it took awhile but it came out real clean then we put the liner in it.
jw hash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:16 AM   #13
Keith True
Senior Member
 
Keith True's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Epping N.H.
Posts: 2,485
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I have done A tanks on the loader wheel.You have to strap them on with the instrument panel facing the wheel,any other way and you will not get the underside of the tank top clean.I throw in maybe a quart of black beauty,(coal slag) and let it spin.I just start the loader and let it spin for a few hours at a time.The worst tank I did is now in my truck.I probably spun that one for 20 hours,maybe more.I knew I would never get it all,but I did get it to a no-problem level.The sand will get around the baffles,you will find out when you try to get it out.I wash the tank after,then dry it by leaving it in the sun and rolling it around for a couple of days.In the winter I just set it in front of the waste oil furnace.Then I blow the powder out with a 3 foot line on a blow gun.The real bad one in my truck I did in 94 or 95,and as of two years ago had accumulated about 1/2 inch of sediment in the bowl.When in use the truck never sits long enough to start to rust,and in the winter I have always dumped ATF in the tank and driven before parking.In reality,if you have the capabilities,cutting the top of the tank off like Brent does would be faster.It can get pretty agonizing blowing that sand out after.A local radiator shop used to gut two holes in the backs of the 30-31 tanks and weld them back in after,but he closed up in the 80's.I am still leery of sealers,I have been burned by them.You may use the newest,high quality impervious to everything now,but what will be in the gas in the future?As I found out from the sealer maker a couple of years ago,the stuff attacking the sealer was not even invented when they produced the product they put in tanks I had done.All the ones I had done in the early 90's have failed in farm tractors and a couple of cars.The alcohol wasn't doing it,we've had that for a while now.
Keith True is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:58 AM   #14
bobpo
Senior Member
 
bobpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 556
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I used 8 - 1" stones after cleaning and running boiling water in the tank. You need to count the rocks so you get the same amount back out. I bought the cleaner and sealer from Snyders. The tank is awkward so it's a good idea to have someone help you. It took about 4 days (during the summer), but it came out beautifully.

BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS TO A "T".
bobpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 09:12 AM   #15
Cool Hand Lurker
Senior Member
 
Cool Hand Lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Minn
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

I am keeping an eye out for a used paint shaker, preferably one for a 5-gal bucket. It could be used for small parts in the 5-gal bucket and i could build an adapter sub-frame to hold things like a Model A gas tank. Anybody have one sitting around doin' nuthin'?
Cool Hand Lurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 09:25 AM   #16
Glenn C.
Senior Member
 
Glenn C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Didsbury Alberta
Posts: 838
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

A good strong, co-operative wife is perfect for this type of project. Helps to keep them strong, and feeling needed !!
Glenn C. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 09:35 AM   #17
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 10,220
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Well, if spinning them with pea gravel (--or even 1 inch stones) works for you, then by all means continue using that method, but I do challenge you to look at some of the photos below and tell me/us how that gravel is able to penetrate behind the baffles to be effective.

AND, the biggest issue is the rust that is on the sides of those baffles (in the center portions or areas of those baffles) and getting it removed as the gravel seemingly gets to the inside of the exterior walls as the tank is rotated but always manages to miss the areas that would be at the level where fuel would be when the tank is full. This is where the problem comes in because as the fuel sloshes, it dislodges that rust. The subsequent problem is that the rust just reforms again to make the problem ongoing.

One other thing, have you thought about how much sealer it takes to adequately coat a tank? Look at the backside of those baffles and consider the thought if one quart of semi-thick sealer is added and sloshed in the tank, how does it get to those problem areas in the center area of the baffles? To further illustrate this, look at the last image I posted. This was a tank that was tumbled with gravel (you can see the rocks still imbedded in the sealer) and then sealed after the rust was "removed". Can you see why he still had problems??

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0155.jpg (85.1 KB, 203 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0157.jpg (90.3 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0652.jpg (82.1 KB, 207 views)
File Type: jpg DSC01291.JPG (138.8 KB, 210 views)
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 10:21 AM   #18
Glenn C.
Senior Member
 
Glenn C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Didsbury Alberta
Posts: 838
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Brent has by far the best solution to clean the inside of the Model A tank. Now...I
guess the question is, Do you want to use the very best form of repair, or is a half baked repair good enough ? After seeing and reading Brent's post...I know which way I would go !!
Glenn C. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 11:23 AM   #19
'29wagon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: H.B. California
Posts: 451
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

if one were to go about inserting items to knock off the rust (what of it you think you'll get) rocks probably are not the best item to choose unless they are of high iron content and solid , then bb's would be a better choice. i'v witnessed bead blasting and a magnet is used in clean up , in this case counting them would be wise .
i do respect the work of a pro (thanks Brent) and those pictures clearly show that you'll never get full coverage of removing all of the rust or coating the tank entirely .

to fill the tank with (to me) an unknown chemical to the brim then empty and observe the amount remaining once drained . still coating without a scope, it's going to be tough to see in there.
looks to me the best way to go about this it to separate it .
thanks for the assistance . at lease for now i've got a good idea where those baffles open up to each chamber, unless there was a change in design, which that thought did come to mind.
i'll just attempt to keep it clean and remove more debris while i continue on .
day by day, inching along. the tank can wait .
'29wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #20
Cool Hand Lurker
Senior Member
 
Cool Hand Lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Minn
Posts: 1,478
Default Re: Gas tank cleaning

Thanks for the photos Brent. I did not realize that there were more than the two cross-baffles but now I see that there are longitudinal baffles in the two end compartments. That creates an even bigger problem trying to get any abrasives out. I guess cutting it open is the only way to really see what is in there and what has to be done.
Cool Hand Lurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.