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Old 05-04-2019, 09:21 AM   #21
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
Wow what a difference in stories between the customer and the vendor.


Yeah, that always seems to be the case!! That in a nutshell is why there is a HUGE problem with social media. It used to be that people took responsibility for themselves not asking enough questions prior to consummating a deal, -and if something went wrong, the legal system became involved to resolve the matter. Today, it is all about retaliating socially no matter is (all) the facts are told. More to the point, for whatever reasoning seems prudent, people feel like they have the right to 'tattletale' on others.
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

I've been lucky with most everything but shocks. They always worked fine but leaked from day one. Never sent any back to anyone. Always supplied two sets of cores and told the vendor to keep the extras. Probably my fault for not buying new ones, I think. I'm told they don't leak.
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

I only have to send a few things out for the helicopters but we know up front that there will be an evaluation charge and/or a core charge. They do it at a flat rate. If the part is not repairable then we get their evaluation e-mail and they ask if we want the part back or if we want them to handle the scrap. At least if we disagree with their evaluation then we have to option to have them return it at our expense. We sign the document with instruction one way or the other and fax it back to them. They will then bill us accordingly. We do the same thing for a part that can be repaired and this acts as a contract between the two companies along with a basic evaluation of the cost for repairs. At this point, there is still a chance that some internal parts may not pass process inspections and we know that up front for the added expense possibility.

This happens in about every form of service repair businesses that have to get parts shipped in or shipped out and most folks should have the sense to realize that this is how the game is played. If they don't then you definitely don't need them as a customer. Too many folks want something for nothing. At least with documentation, there is a record of the transaction.

If a guy ever tries to overhaul one of the old who-die dampers, they will know how much of a pita it really is. It's sort of like pulling the prop off of a really big aircraft engine. A 10-foot long cheater pipe may need to be extended sometimes with several more guys pulling. It also helps if a guy has a lathe and a mill to make tools and an oxy acetylene torch for heat.
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

And that is why we always recommend John Holland in Valley City, Ohio
(330) 483-3896
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe K View Post
The ever irrepressible Mikespeedshop.nc is still posting. The latest 01-27-2019

He replied to a Werner post setting us right on orientation/installation of shocks.

He did not mention if he's referring to stolen shocks. Or if veracity is a necessary prerequisite to good will.

Joe K
Well, that's enough for me. I will not be using Mike's Speed Shop. When people/companies, such as Brassworks and MACS, receive multiple bad reviews you'd a fool to just ignore such information.

How many bad reviews do you see about Bratton's, Langs (Model T parts), Berg's radiators? One? None? Why is that you think? Why is it you think Brassworks gets bad reviews, and Berg's doesn't?

Social media is great for holding crooks to account. It brought down and broke Harvey Weinstein and "America's Dad" Bill Crosby.

A few years ago the Model T hobby was rocked by the "Babbittgate scandal" where a well known for-profit Model T guy was claiming that the use synthetic oil ruined a engine he had worked on. This guy's credibility as an engine re-builder went down the toilet...and rightly so.

"I will share my 'first hand' experience in this matter. In about 2002 a friend of ours wanted to buy a nice Model T. At that time, one of our club members living in Kewanee, Illinois was wanting to sell the car his dad had owned. The story we were told is that Russ had rebuilt the engine, it had major problems, and was re-rebuilt by Russ. The seller had put maybe 2000 miles on the rebuilt engine. Our friends bought the car, and in less than 1000 miles had problems with the master clutch, which meant we needed to pull the engine. While the engine was apart, we decided to check the general condition of the bottom end. First, number 3 rod had excessive clearance, then we found that number 2 main was worn out as well. After some thought, we took the block, and fresh crank and rod cores to Tony Verschoore for a fresh rebuild. I knew that Russ had rebuilt the engine, so I took the bad rod to the Indy swap meet that fall to see if he could shed any light on the subject. His response was "I told the stupid ... not to use synthetic oil after the first time he ruined the engine". When we got the engine back from Tony, I tried to spend some time to insure that the fourth main was in proper alignment. I tried for a LONG time to get the tailshaft dialed into alignment, but could not get below about 0.020" tir or so UNTIL I put on a different flywheel. (This was the flywheel that had been on the car). The runout of the tailshaft immediately dropped to about 0.005" tir or less. We buttoned everything up, and the owner put 10,000 or more miles on the car in the next few years with no adjustments to the bottom end.

Did the use of synthetic oil during break-in cause the problems we saw? Or was the tailshaft alignment the problem?

Ron Dupree"


taken from:

http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/...57&post=178585

also see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1248057403
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

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This guy's credibility as an engine re-builder went down the toilet...and rightly so.




I'm calling 'bs' on that comment. First off, I know Ron very, very well, ...and I know Russ and 'Red' very well. Russ' reputation did not go downhill whatsoever by his comment. He & Red have as much, -if not more business than they can handle. Russ has a very 'strong' personality however he is one of the best in the business. If you need someone 'politically correct, -he likely is not your first choice however if you can overlook his personality, he is an excellent craftsman. On the other hand, the late Fred, Bob, Seth and several others in those threads thrive off of controversy, ...and most of the time you never hear all of the story. Notice what Ron said about when they got the same engine back from Tony and installed the flywheel. You see, Russ was getting scathed for producing a bad product (-short block) twice yet Tony would have too had Ron not been smart enough to pick-up on the flywheel having an issue that was out of Russ' or Tony's control.
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

I use synthetic oil in turbine engines. It has a place there that easily justifies the cost of materials. On a reciprocating piston engine I could never justify the expense. The old engines need regular oil changes more often than modern ones for a lot of reasons. Many of the later model cars have oil seals that do a decent job of holding synthetics in place but older cars don't. I would use good grade mineral based oil for break in. If it has at least 800 PPM of the ZDDP but no more than 1,200 PPM additive then it's good to go. Change it every 500 miles or 6 months or so till the engine is broken in.

That synthetic stuff is just too expensive and it isn't any better.

We use straight mineral oil for recip aircraft engine break in but they are air cooled and they have big old 5 1/8" diameter rings to break in too. On automobiles with liquid coolant, the straight mineral with no additives is not necessary.

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Old 05-05-2019, 08:49 AM   #28
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

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Originally Posted by M2M View Post

How many bad reviews do you see about Bratton's, Langs (Model T parts), Berg's radiators? One? None? Why is that you think? Why is it you think Brassworks gets bad reviews, and Berg's doesn't?
SAY WHAT???

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Iv'e tried just about every "A" parts house and ALL the parts houses carry ALL the same parts by All the same manufacturers and they ALL have a lot of trash parts. Almost every part whether be a Licenses ford re-pop or Vintage, ... they are all the same, ... most need reworking. So, ... No parts house is without it's complaint's, I'm just tired of leaving bad reviews. It's a further waste of my time after I spend a considerable amount of time making a new part correct.

My latest issue with Bratton's, ... I bought everything for a complete rebuild of the steering Box and steering column. They sent me spark rods so bent they had no chance of ever working. I called them and they sent me 2 new ones, ... BENT just like the first set but probably usable if I spend time on "fixing a ROD". You would think someone would check that they were not bent before they sent the second set, ... NOPE, ... 3 weeks down the drain. it took about a 1/2 hour to straighten them correctly. The damage was during mfg. of the product, as the boxes came to me like someone walked them here.

So Again, ... Nobody smells like roses in the A parts house, ... nobody.

Regards
Bill

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Old 05-05-2019, 09:05 AM   #29
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

This is a case of poor communication on my end.im not a talker,Im short with people. His shocks with the exception of one was rebuildable.I went through my cores trying to find a matching set of cores.His was 3 different years of shocks.In the end could only find 2 of one style ,2 of another.He said thats fine.I decided that wouldnt look right,so i just sent his stuff back to him.He got them.Didnt call me and tell me he was short one.Which i decided to send him one thats rebuildable .So he ended up with better stuff than he started with. He ahould receive first of week.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

There are a couple things I know about what I don't know! I would have no clue, in physically looking at a Houdaille shock if it was suitable for rebuilding or a paper weight! And with my limited budget, I would do a lot of research and asking questions on this forum and others and web searches to arrive at finding a high quality rebuilder or place to purchase rebuilt shocks! I got on the web today, and did a lot of searching, and what I found is Ford Barn bad comments about MikesSpeedshop, no info directing me to MikesSpeedshop, but a host of rebuilders such as one (Apple in NY) that have web pages that tell you what to expect in cost and rebuilding and what can be accepted as a core and what is not acceptable. If I had a shock that needed evaluation, right now, there is only one way I personally could do it. Send it to a repair vendor that has a decent reputation and pay the price for quality. (and be able to accept feedback on condition of my core) If I don't personally know the condition, I am stuck with being told!)
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:09 PM   #31
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHZIEMAN View Post
There are a couple things I know about what I don't know! I would have no clue, in physically looking at a Houdaille shock if it was suitable for rebuilding or a paper weight! And with my limited budget, I would do a lot of research and asking questions on this forum and others and web searches to arrive at finding a high quality rebuilder or place to purchase rebuilt shocks! I got on the web today, and did a lot of searching, and what I found is Ford Barn bad comments about MikesSpeedshop, no info directing me to MikesSpeedshop, but a host of rebuilders such as one (Apple in NY) that have web pages that tell you what to expect in cost and rebuilding and what can be accepted as a core and what is not acceptable. If I had a shock that needed evaluation, right now, there is only one way I personally could do it. Send it to a repair vendor that has a decent reputation and pay the price for quality. (and be able to accept feedback on condition of my core) If I don't personally know the condition, I am stuck with being told!)



While I am not trying to be critical of you and your thoughts, I feel your method is VERY flawed and the very reasons why people such as yourself tend to have issues.


To begin with, this thread is a perfect example of how misleading and misinformed posters on this site can be. If you hear all the facts from both parties, things seem to change tremendously but the majority of the time, you are forming your opinion without knowing the facts -or even personally knowing the poster! I dare say that very few people here have actually successfully rebuilt an A shock (--or even disassembled one for that matter), ...however we agree how there are plenty of people here who are willing to give an opinion no matter whether it is fact based or fiction!


While I understand you have little knowledge of shocks, instead of asking questions to random people on forums or on social media, why not contact Mike, or Apple, or John Holland directly and ask THEM your questions? These are the guys that do this professionally and are knowledgeable with experience. Digest what each one has told you and if you still have questions, contact that rebuilder again to ask more questions. If you need for accurate feedback, ask the rebuilder you are considering to give you some references from former customers. Contact/call those customers and ask how their rebuilt shocks are doing and their experiences with the rebuilder. This is how you should form your opinion.


One other thing to remember is that the shock rebuilder mentioned above may have 50 happy customers for every 1 unhappy one. The 50 happy ones never think another thing about their good experience with the rebuilder because that is what they expected which means they never say another word about their experience however the 1 unhappy one likely has retaliation on his mind and so he tells his side of the story for all to read. You make your decision based on 2% feedback that likely is not accurate anyway. Doesn't seem too smart on your part when it is put in that perspective!!
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

well put Brent
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCNC View Post
SAY WHAT???

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Iv'e tried just about every "A" parts house and ALL the parts houses carry ALL the same parts by All the same manufacturers and they ALL have a lot of trash parts. Almost every part whether be a Licenses ford re-pop or Vintage, ... they are all the same, ... most need reworking. So, ... No parts house is without it's complaint's, I'm just tired of leaving bad reviews. It's a further waste of my time after I spend a considerable amount of time making a new part correct.

My latest issue with Bratton's, ... I bought everything for a complete rebuild of the steering Box and steering column. They sent me spark rods so bent they had no chance of ever working. I called them and they sent me 2 new ones, ... BENT just like the first set but probably usable if I spend time on "fixing a ROD". You would think someone would check that they were not bent before they sent the second set, ... NOPE, ... 3 weeks down the drain. it took about a 1/2 hour to straighten them correctly. The damage was during mfg. of the product, as the boxes came to me like someone walked them here.

So Again, ... Nobody smells like roses in the A parts house, ... nobody.

Regards
Bill
Bill, I agree all the suppliers sell many trash parts and also screw things up sometimes but what I'm talking about is the response you get when you contact them for a replacement or your $ back. Bratton's seems to be one of the better suppliers in this regard, that's all I'm saying.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

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Originally Posted by mikesspeedshop.nc View Post
This is a case of poor communication on my end.im not a talker,Im short with people. His shocks with the exception of one was rebuildable.I went through my cores trying to find a matching set of cores.His was 3 different years of shocks.In the end could only find 2 of one style ,2 of another.He said thats fine.I decided that wouldnt look right,so i just sent his stuff back to him.He got them.Didnt call me and tell me he was short one.Which i decided to send him one thats rebuildable .So he ended up with better stuff than he started with. He ahould receive first of week.

Glad to hear you and the customer sorted things out.
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:59 AM   #35
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

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I'm calling 'bs' on that comment. First off, I know Ron very, very well, ...and I know Russ and 'Red' very well. Russ' reputation did not go downhill whatsoever by his comment. He & Red have as much, -if not more business than they can handle. Russ has a very 'strong' personality however he is one of the best in the business. If you need someone 'politically correct, -he likely is not your first choice however if you can overlook his personality, he is an excellent craftsman. On the other hand, the late Fred, Bob, Seth and several others in those threads thrive off of controversy, ...and most of the time you never hear all of the story. Notice what Ron said about when they got the same engine back from Tony and installed the flywheel. You see, Russ was getting scathed for producing a bad product (-short block) twice yet Tony would have too had Ron not been smart enough to pick-up on the flywheel having an issue that was out of Russ' or Tony's control.

Well, let's start with something we agree on. You described Russ Potter's personality as "strong"...that's a very generous way to put it; I would have used another word but I think we're on the same page.

Brent, when it comes to using, repairing and restoring Model As and Ts you're normally spot on with your advice and I personally am always very interested in hearing your take on things.

When it comes though to these customer/suppliers disagreement issues, what's blindingly obvious often escapes you. Perhaps you're distracted by fears that if someone doesn't put in a good word for supplier X, they may get upset and decide to shut shop thus hurting everyone in the hobby.

The beauty of "Babbittgate" is that we know the full story from both sides and we have sort of an independent investigator, your friend Ron Dupree.

What you're overlooking is the following fact:

Russ Potter blamed the customer, the victim, for the engine problems without any evidence of that being the case. On top of that, he used a conspiracy theory explanation as to why it was the victim's fault, namely...synthetic oil ate the babbitt.

What's next? Aliens, Big Foot or Putin?

Ron Dupree hints at the absurdity of this when he asks: "Did the use of synthetic oil during break-in cause the problems we saw? Or was the tailshaft alignment the problem".

Russ Potter's reputation as an engine guy was and still is ruined; and that's not bs as you said. You're correct that's he's still busy in the T hobby but that's in T carby restoration, he does do a good job of that and I have a Potter carby myself. If people are still going to him for engine repairs it's likely because they're unaware of Babbittgate.

There's a number of good engine guys out there; someone unpleasant and living in fantasy land isn't needed.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
..





While I am not trying to be critical of you and your thoughts, I feel your method is VERY flawed and the very reasons why people such as yourself tend to have issues.


To begin with, this thread is a perfect example of how misleading and misinformed posters on this site can be. If you hear all the facts from both parties, things seem to change tremendously but the majority of the time, you are forming your opinion without knowing the facts -or even personally knowing the poster! I dare say that very few people here have actually successfully rebuilt an A shock (--or even disassembled one for that matter), ...however we agree how there are plenty of people here who are willing to give an opinion no matter whether it is fact based or fiction!


While I understand you have little knowledge of shocks, instead of asking questions to random people on forums or on social media, why not contact Mike, or Apple, or John Holland directly and ask THEM your questions? These are the guys that do this professionally and are knowledgeable with experience. Digest what each one has told you and if you still have questions, contact that rebuilder again to ask more questions. If you need for accurate feedback, ask the rebuilder you are considering to give you some references from former customers. Contact/call those customers and ask how their rebuilt shocks are doing and their experiences with the rebuilder. This is how you should form your opinion.


One other thing to remember is that the shock rebuilder mentioned above may have 50 happy customers for every 1 unhappy one. The 50 happy ones never think another thing about their good experience with the rebuilder because that is what they expected which means they never say another word about their experience however the 1 unhappy one likely has retaliation on his mind and so he tells his side of the story for all to read. You make your decision based on 2% feedback that likely is not accurate anyway. Doesn't seem too smart on your part when it is put in that perspective!!
First off, all good words. And, I am not doing my shocks. Next, I appreciate the knowledge you share on who does know good info on shocks and it is my hope the person who started this thread reads what you shared. What you point out is the Forum is a good place to learn things and it is key to know "Who knows what". If I ever get around to shocks, now I got the names! And as I look back over this string, and think about what I would have done if this same thing happened to me. And I can tell ya, it would not have been to post on the Ford Barn.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

"That synthetic stuff is just too expensive and it isn't any better."


walmart now charges 10. a gallon for pure synthetic and can be bought by the 55 gallon drum


cheaper then reg motor oil..................
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:43 AM   #38
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

I have no dog in this fight, however maybe the OP should have tried a bit harder (although he was not obligated to, but may the best use of due diligence) to contact the shock rebuilder regarding the issue once he received his package back. It may very well have been an honest mistake of shipping back the wrong part, certainly not a reason to get 'the law' involved right off the bat. So many people think the first thing to do is 'lawyer up'. That should be the very last resort. Get a dialogue going between parties and work out your differences. Im sure a phone call would have cleared everything up.
For those of you that do not or have not had to deal with the general public in a service environment, you may surprised how difficult it can be dealing with people at times.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:47 AM   #39
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Default Re: Mikesspeedshop NC-Shock Rebuilder BEWARE

77Birdman ---- Well Said!

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