Anti-freeze

[Ray P]

This is my first post. I am considering restoring my 30 coupe that was my daily driver back in high school and college. It's been sitting in a corner of the garage and sadly neglected for years but I couldn't bare to part with it so I just kept it even though it wasn't being driven. It's not in very good condition but I believe it is restorable. I am retired now and finally have some time to devote to it. I will probably have to enlist professional help due in part to it's condition and my limited skill level but my biggest shortcoming is my lack of knowledge on correct restoration technique. From reading Ford Barn posts I can tell it's going to be very involved. I have been impressed with the knowledge level of Ford Barn members as well as everyone's willingness to share information. I'm sure I will have questions and will be asking for guidance. My first question is not Model A specific, it's about anti-freeze. After I rolled the car out of its corner of the garage I checked the coolant and was shocked to discover it appears to be pure anti-freeze. It tested -7 degrees. It's rare to see temperatures that low in central Kentucky but it does happen. In fact it may get that low next week. I have since drained the cooling system and will replace it with the proper mix but I am wondering if I may have a damaged block from cold weather in winters past. I have heard that pure ethelyne glycol does not expand when it freezes like water does so it won't crack a block. Does anyone know if this is true? What's the best way to determine if the block is sound? Can it be done if the engine is not in running condition? Thanks for your help

[700rpm]

The best way to check the block is pull it out and have it magnafluxed. But I don't think you would have a crack anywhere if you've had anti- freeze in it all this time.

As for restoration, there are several good books you should buy, incl. Les Andrews's manual vol I, and MAFCA Judging Standards. Also join a local club if you have one. You'll do fine if you take your time, read a lot, look at lots of other cars, don't throw anything away, and make friends with other A owners. Send away for free catalogs from A suppliers so you can see what's available, but don't replace an original part if it can be restored. Original stuff is always better, without exception. (Well, "except" maybe glass, tires, and tubes.)

[QGolden]

Welcome to the Barn!
Depending on the manufacturer, pure Ethylene Glycol will freeze at 10 to 0F. However it's freezing characteristic at any temps that KY has ever seen is to form glycol crystals suspended within the fluid. At those temperatures there is no expansion of the fluid. Tested to -7 I would suspect there is very little chance of freezing damage to the motor, certainly in KY.

Was it running good when you parked it? From the looks of the photo, it is most certainly restorable. Have you considered getting it running first, perhaps try to drive it? After a careful brake inspection it might be a candidate to be a driver again.

If you can get it running you may not need an engine overhaul, depending on your long term plans for it.

If it will run, I would get it running, then, I would begin by carefully benchmarking it. Wet and Dry Compression Test, plug gap, points gap, check the timing, cylinder head temp above each cylinder, radiator temp over ambient, etc.

If after running it, things change you will know What you started with. One afternoon spent benchmarking an engine and comparing.those specs to the manual, can bring you a lot of peace of mind.

If it is close to spec and your goal is to drive it for an ice cream on weekends, or to a cruise night, you could save a ton of money to put into the interior.

Where are you in KY? I have Family in Carter County.

[Keith True]

I worked for a contractor taking care of 23 Macks.We took the protection down to zero on them.They weren't really used in the winter,and the few that did get used would get run with the winter front closed up,or the shutters closed.If there is something is protected down to just say,15 degrees,that doesn't mean it is going to freeze solid at 15.It will slush.It won't be good to drive because the slush won't want to run through the radiator,but it won't turn to a block of ice that cracks anything.

[Mitch//pa]

welcome to the barn,
that is so cool to still have the car you drove to high school. i also feel that you are fine as far as the protection, and if you want just crack the drain plug loose any antifreeze in the oil will leach out right away as it will be on the bottom. even if some did come out it could have slipped by the head gasket from sitting over time..

[Tom Wesenberg]

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I would dust it off, lube it and start driving it. I think it looks good the way it is. You can restore the brakes to make sure it stops good, then restore the generator, and install it and keep driving it. The next weekend you can restore the carb and keep driving it, etc. until you get the starter, generator, water pump, distributor, and carb rebuilt. I see it has tube shocks and sealed beam headlights.

[tbirdtbird]

Why do you think it is pure antifreeze if it tested -7. Pure antifreeze freezes at -12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

A proper mix, 50% ethylene glycol and 50% water freezes at -34.

Whomever had the car before you had no idea how to mix antifreeze (a basic skill I should add). I am sure the block/head are not damaged if Kentucky seldom reaches that low. Restore to the correct mix, run it, drive it, check for leaks, and check the dipstick for milky oil (this means an internal AF leak), and after letting the car sit for a couple days crack the oil drain plug and see if any water/AF comes out before oil. This would also indicate a leak. I am willing to bet all is OK, though.

Go over the car slowly after you get it running so you can see if there are any systems (ignition/ brakes/ drive train, etc) are lacking due to low skill sets of PO, and see just what you are up against. There are several good books available to help you with resto. Search this site and you will find them. They are going to be very helpful. Might start with the Les Andrews series.

It is amazing that some ppl will spend 5-10-15 K on a car then squawk when suggested that they spend an additional 100-200 bucks on some books and manuals.

Enjoy the car!!

Post often, we are more than willing to help.

[George Miller]

If it had cracked there would not be antifreeze left in it. It would have been gone long ago. I do not think that it ever got that cold in your garage.

[Ray P]

Thanks to all for your comments and encouragment. I feel more confident about the block. I will try to get it cleaned up and started. Hopefully it will run. I got the car when I was 15 years old. My father bought it for me and he paid $300 back then. The car was purely original but it was 31 years old and pretty worn. I got my drivers license on it. My road test was cut short only 1/2 block long instead of the normal one mile circuit. I think the state policeman didn't like the exhaust fumes and sitting on bare springs covered in an army blanket. I did some things back then that I regret. I ordered a rebuilt engine from my local Ford dealer. I had to give them my old block as a core. I did not realize I was losing the original serial number. The motor ran well though and at a cost of $212 I was on the road. I drove it daily for six years. I had little money for repairs but there was nothing like the availability of parts there is today. Many of my repair parts came from local salvage vehicles. J C Whitney did have some parts but they were limited and often low quality. I was lucky to find a former Ford dealership that had a lot of NOS parts in their attic storage. I found all kinds of misc. parts including some nice accessory items like an automatic choke for an A Model. I remember finding a pair of original headlight lenses and the owner telling me "They will never make these again" He charged me a dollar which was double my offer of fifty cents. I made a big mistake in putting on tube shocks. I took off the originals and discarded them. There were no rebuilders that I knew of at the time. The tube shock kit was crude and required welding on brackets that I would now love to see gone. I wanted hydraulic brakes but couldn't afford a conversion which required taking a set off of a later model car. At that time that was considered a huge upgrade. Everyone I knew believed the old mechanical system was inherently deficient. No one realized how good they could be as I now have found out from reading this forum. I believe so many years had passed since the A's were kept in top shape that it was just accepted the brakes would be bad unless you had hydraulic. So now I'm looking forward to restoring my old ride and I'm still trying to decide which way to go. I've heard a lot about engine and transmission/rear upgrades that can boost performance. I've read that these cars were designed to go 60 mph all day long. All I can say is that this car would not do that. It would do 60 mph but it was a strain on the engine and I never felt comfortable going very far at that speed. I hope to find a local owner that has an A with a modified engine so I can see for myself if I want to go for such an upgrade. I have posted a few more pictures so you can see how far I have to go. Thanks for your input

[Mitch//pa]

nice story...i would do as the others have said to change the fluids and fuel and get her going. its hard to tell by the pic but the gas in that bowl looks ooooold and not like the old pink lookin sunoco 94..
trying to run it on that could stick your valves and cause you some grief

[QGolden]

Great story Ray. If you do plan to run it, put a new fan on your list of things to buy. Yours looks like it is rusty and separation failures have occurred at RPM creating damage to hoods and radiators. Potential injury to bystanders as well. Do a search here at the barn.

[glenn in camino]

Antifreeze removes paint on hoods or splash pans.

[Pmsqrd]

Nice story and great car. They are only original once.

However you should consider replacing that two blade fan. They come in two kinds. One that has broken and one that will break. The broken ones have damaged hoods and radiators. The others will in the future.

[Ray P]

Thanks for the tip on the fan. Actually I know too well what can happen. One night when I was 16 or 17 I was driving on a desolate two lane road. I came to a long downhill stretch that was straight but narrow and I decided to see how fast it would go. The engine was screaming and the speedometer was rocking between 70 and 75 when I heard a loud bang and the headlights went out. I was terrified because it was a pitch black dark night and I was flying down a hill with a narrow bridge at the bottom. I could not see anything. Out of desperation I turned the lights to dim but nothing happened. I then turned the switch to park and thank God one of the cowl lights came on. I could see well enough to navigate the bridge and pull the car to the shoulder. The fan had separated and had severed the headlight wires before exiting through one of the hood louvres. The water pump was completely shattered. The radiator was steaming and the exhaust manifold was white hot. I know I was lucky to be alive. The next day I got a water pump and fan from a farmer that had an old junk tudor. I straightened out the hood louvre and I was back in business albeit somewhat humbled and less inclined to test the outer limits. I will definitely look into getting a new fan when I get it running.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with you...........just because the car can do 60 doesn't mean it's good to do 60. The forces trying to bend the crank and rods go up by 4 as the speed doubles, and so does the stopping distance. Actually the stopping distance might go up even more than 4 as speed doubles, due to brake fade. If you are doing a frame off restoration I would still do all the small stuff first and keep the car drivable. Then when the time comes for the frame and body paint, a lot of time can be saved, and it won't be apart for years.

[Quigley1930]

I see you have VA tags on the seat. Where you at in this fine state?

Sewall Tyler
Middleburg, Va.

[Ray P]

I grew up in southern VA but now live in KY. My father put those VA antique plates on the car after I left home. He kept the car for a few years but later towed the car to me decades ago and I have had it ever since but have not driven it. I just took the plates off and laid them on the seat. I didn't even realize they were there.

[slackcat]

Nice car.

[Wallace]

Green !....with envy. A perfect car to restore and renew memories. Follow Tom' advice ...ease into making the car driveable as you gain knowledge and develop plan. Estimate costs and multiply by 2 (or more). Do not toss any piece until project is done. Keep in touch.....

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