Start up w/o coolant, REALLY !

[xray zulu]

New head gasket, proper torque, all is well...

I have been told to start it up for 1-2 minutes w/o coolant. Then let it cool completely and torque as normal. Theeeeeennnnn add coolant... Comments Please. Thank You...

[J Franklin]

Who is telling you this advice? It may not hurt but 2 minutes might be too long. It definitely would get the head retorted faster.

[ryanheacox]

Haven't heard that one before. Might not do any harm but I wouldn't do it.

[Purdy Swoft]

I've heard hints about it but wouldn't try it !!!

[chrs1961815]

It may not hurt but I have never heard of it. I would just do what everybody else does with their engines: running it with coolant.

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by xray zulu

New head gasket, proper torque, all is well...

I have been told to start it up for 1-2 minutes w/o coolant. Then let it cool completely and torque as normal. Theeeeeennnnn add coolant... Comments Please. Thank You...

Have you ever heard the saying: "Put your money where your mouth is"? It applies here! Have the giver of this "advice" hand you a check for say, $5,000 with the promise you will deposit it a bank for six months. If no engine damage is apparent by then after having run it 2 minutes without coolant, he gets his money back, with any interest it earned.
Running without coolant for a minute or two will result in localized hot spots forming, which may result in distortion of the block or head. Keeping the coolant in the engine results in an equalized warming up of the entire engine, which is healthier for it in my opinion. So what if it takes a little longer to reach operating temperature??

[1931 flamingo]

Back in the late 50's in the winter I'd come home from school and start the A in the driveway and go back and forth for about a 1/4 hour (I was 15?) with no coolant, never had a problem.
Paul in CT

[Gary WA]

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brum...structions.htm

[Mulletwagon]

Sounds like one of those "technique not procedure" things. Wouldn't do it.

[Rich in Tucson]

I believe this type of advice arose with the advent of easily postable videos such as youtube. I saw one in which a guy had just finished installing his crate chevy motor in his rust-bucket street rod and filmed its first run. After a hearty "Hold my beer and watch this" it seized hard after a few minutes because he just could not stop goosing the throttle...

[1crosscut]

After putting on a new head gasket I will start an engine without coolant for 20 seconds and only 20 seconds at low idle. Then I shut it down and let the heat saturate through the head. After it saturates I will torque it and let it cool completely and then torque again.
After that I will run it again for 20 seconds and let it cool completely and re-torque.
Only running 20 seconds will not get an engine too hot and allows the head gasket to settle in without the chance of coolant sneaking in between the gasket and the head/block and causing troubles.
Works for me.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Rich in Tucson

I believe this type of advice arose with the advent of easily postable videos such as youtube. I saw one in which a guy had just finished installing his crate chevy motor in his rust-bucket street rod and filmed its first run. After a hearty "Hold my beer and watch this" it seized hard after a few minutes because he just could not stop goosing the throttle...

I agree, gotta be careful following info from u-tube. Once tried to repair a shower valve, was following a u-tube video. Something did not seem right, called a plumber in, told me I was lucky I stopped when I did, came close to twisting the water connections off teh back of the valve. Allmost did a Tim Taylor.

[Jacksonlll]

I don't know what you are trying to save. You have to re-torque it several times anyway. Never 2 minutes. Way too long.

[Kurt in NJ]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

After putting on a new head gasket I will start an engine without coolant for 20 seconds and only 20 seconds at low idle. Then I shut it down and let the heat saturate through the head. After it saturates I will torque it and let it cool completely and then torque again.
After that I will run it again for 20 seconds and let it cool completely and re-torque.
Only running 20 seconds will not get an engine too hot and allows the head gasket to settle in without the chance of coolant sneaking in between the gasket and the head/block and causing troubles.
Works for me.

So when it is running the intake port is cooled by evaporation of the fuel and airflow, the exhaust port--and seat get HOT, then shut off the heat moves to the intake port----then started a rush of cold hits it ---cast iron is quite tolerant of many stresses, but thermal shock is something it gets all broke up over at times.
I got to take apart 2 engines that had a known history of being run without coolant "just for a min or 2" --both had valve seat cracks

[old31]

xray, someone is giving you some very bad advice, don't do it.

[1930 coupe]

If anyone ran one of my engines without coolant, for any amount of time, I would void there warranty.

[bigd1101]

This came from a misnomer that some coolant might leak out through the new head but lets remember, we are torquing the new head at 35,45,then 55 lbs....BEFORE we fire it up and before we add coolant. There is a snowballs chance in hell that any coolant will somehow slip by the new head gasket and the torqued head bolts. Also, let her sit over night after torquing (so I'm told) so the head can settle then re torque at 55 lbs, fire her up and take her out, come back and let her cool again and re-torque.

[Jim Brierley]

I have started the engine dry a few times to check other things but only for a few seconds. re-torquing is important, some gaskets don't move much, others require several torquings before they settle down. I recently put an engine together with Best 509 composition gasket and the nuts barely moved on the second torquing, a few days ago I used a Best 509 copper gasket and they moved a lot on the 2nd round and a little on the 3rd.

[B0B]

I just fill it with water, start it up drive around a bit THEN when there are no leaks or problems I let it cool , drain it, pour in one and a half gallons of Ethelene Glycol anti freeze (Prestone) add a small bottle of Coolant conditioner UPG Radiator antirust with water pump lubricant in it then top off with Distilled Water . I have found that the anti rust conditioner with water pump lubricant will greatly reduce water pump problems .

[160B]

FWIW

Here are the instructions that come with the head gasket that is used by a reliable engine rebuilder in our club.

The only deviation he recommends is to not put coolant in the cooling system, start the engine and let run until the head is warm to the hand, let cool overnight.

Torque cold and repeat the warm up and cool down retorque until there is no added torque to get to 55 ft. lbs. Typically three warm ups.

Then add water drive and retorque after 500 miles.

[J Franklin]

"The only deviation he recommends is to not put coolant in the cooling system, start the engine and let run until the head is warm to the hand, let cool overnight."

Follow the written instructions.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by xray zulu

New head gasket, proper torque, all is well...

I have been told to start it up for 1-2 minutes w/o coolant. Then let it cool completely and torque as normal. Theeeeeennnnn add coolant... Comments Please. Thank You...

Running for any length of time without coolant is akin to amputating your head because you have a toothache.

[Railcarmover]

getting deep in here now..the water jacket filled with water allows for consistent even heating of the cylinders..without it you subject the cylinders and pistons to distortion..but hey,doing it only for a few minutes should be ok..are you sure? risk an engine sure? to save a few minutes?

[chap52]

So why are these things still running? Henry didn't have any coolant available.
Some posts express how water actually cools better than coolant and just the boiling temperature is altered.
Just poking the bear, Chap

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 160B

FWIW


The only deviation he recommends is to not put coolant in the cooling system, start the engine and let run until the head is warm to the hand, let cool overnight.

Then add water drive and retorque after 500 miles.

It's amazing how well an A can run, in spite of self-proclaimed "experts"!

[Dave in MN]

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I suggest plain water until the gasket is fully seated and then change to 50/50 antifreeze and distilled water. Best advice if you live in Minnesota!
Good Day!

[Kurt in NJ]

Originally Posted by chap52

So why are these things still running? Henry didn't have any coolant available.
Some posts express how water actually cools better than coolant and just the boiling temperature is altered.
Just poking the bear, Chap

Actually if you look in the service bulletins there are articles about alcohol, salt, and ethylene glycol

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

I’ve always done it dry. Head warm to touch, retorque, let it cool, add coolant drive it, retorque again. This was especially true with the black felpro gaskets. Which I personally liked. I still do it with the Best gaskets. It works for me. You can do it anyway you like. I understand there’s several roads to Chicago. Important thing is to get there. I know of many engines that this procedure was followed, with no problems. Anyone with real life experience/proof of damaged caused from this procedure??

[Pete]

" I understand there’s several roads to Chicago. Important thing is to get there."

Yes, and railroads and airlines, but who in their right mind would want to go there??
It is a filthy dirty city and always has been. The river is polluted, the lake is full of taconite and the bridges are rusting away.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Pete

" I understand there’s several roads to Chicago. Important thing is to get there."

Yes, and railroads and airlines, but who in their right mind would want to go there??
It is a filthy dirty city and always has been. The river is polluted, the lake is full of taconite and the bridges are rusting away.

Plus you're likely to get shot! The risks far outweigh the rewards. Just like running your engine without coolant!

[chap52]

You guys are funny...lol Chap

[oldforder]

Just an anecdotal story. Dad had a 28 Tudor that we had cut off and made into a pickup . One spring I wanted to haul something( don't remember what). So I cranked it up, (the starter didn't work,) and drove it around the garage to where I wanted to load it up. Started to load, then I smelled something that smelled like something getting hot. Then I remembered, it had been drained for winter, and was still dry. I left it run, grabbed a garden hose that was right next to it, and turned the water on slowly, and ran the water into the radiator while it was still running. Far as anyone could tell, didn't seem to hurt it.

[Purdy Swoft]

My dad taught me to never pour cold water in a hot engine unless it is running when you pour .

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

My dad taught me to never pour cold water in a hot engine unless it is running when you pour .

That is only doable when there's still some coolant left in the system, so you can mix the cold with the hot without (hopefully) doing damage. If the system has boiled dry, you will get a geyser of boiling water and steam gushing out to scald you! Plus, the shock of cold water (even hot water!) hitting red hot (or nearly red hot) cast iron can cause cracks or can rapidly shrink an extremely hot cylinder onto a still-hot piston, seizing it! Best to shut the engine off and let it cool gradually before adding water.
This may be wishful thinking, but I've turned an engine over several times soon after shut-down in hopes of every exhaust valve getting to cool on its seat, as I think an open valve is more likely to warp.

[Kurt in NJ]

This reminds me of a car that came to where I worked, it had been cooked till no compression---- the owner had no money and he was going to tow it home , he arrived in a gremlin towing a dolley, he got out and opened the hood, said it had been running hot--- it was way beyond steam, was popping &crackling some, from over 10 feet away I could tell it was way beyond boiling, --- it got filled with water, the hose put back on , started and made it back on the street towing the real dead car----- I wonder if he ever told the guy he borrowed the car from