Canadian crank indentification

[Ziggster]

I have a Canadian C69 engine, and the machinist mentioned that my crank was the 85 Hp version, whereas another he had (Canadian engine as well) was the 100 Hp version. He stated that based on the fact that on mine there were two oil journal openings for the rods and the other had only one opening. I have done some research on this but could not find anything that mentions the number of oil journals. I did check previously and I do not have the Merc 4" crack. From my understanding, my engine should be a 100 Hp version being 1945/6. Is that correct?

[Brian]

Canadian C69A block is 239, 100 HP, has the large dia crank, but two oil holes per journal. Originally ran lock in thick wall shells, you can run regular 99A floaters as those original shells are impossible to find these days.

[swoopNZ]

The Canadians made castings like blocks and heads but I would think given the proximity of Detroit to Windsor, Ontario, that the crankshafts and camshafts were made and machined in the USA.
They do not have the C prefix in the Canadian 39/40 parts catalogue.
Just MHO.

[Brian]

I dunno Chris, A lot of Canadian motors, both 221 and 239 used lock in shells. According to my Canadian 'Fast moving Parts Catalogue' rod bearings 1939-45, 221 floaters, have basic part number C01TS-6221, 1945-46, 221 locked in rod bearings basic part number C41A-6215
1939-45 239 floaters basic part number C09-6211, whereas the 1945-48 239 locked in bearings basic part number C49A 6215 [used in trucks to serial number # H48-20000] Trucks after #48-20001 used 8BA 6211
There have been posts on here previously about Canadian cranks that were cast differently and had the clean out plugs located around the periphery of the cranks. One was even NOS in the box, with a Canadian part number, as I recall.
I think, when discussing old Fords, nothing is set in concrete, there is always variations to the norm....

[rotorwrench]

The Windsor Ontario plant had full capability. They made the whole engine but there were variations in them as well as their USA counterpart. During the war, The USA definitely helped them overcome shortages of parts but those would be on military engines. After the first part of 1945 both companies were gearing up for post war since some of their war contracts were coming to an end. The Canadian C69 series was the first production Ford V8 to have the lock in bearings throughout the bottom end as far as I know. Ford USA didn't do that till the 8BA came out in 1948.

[swoopNZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Brian,
If you're ever in New Plymouth - call in.
Tel 06 755 0818
Regards,
Chris.NZ.
PS: Looking for a gear shift lever 37-39

[Brian]

Rotor, Note the details in my earlier post; the C69A was not the only Canadian engine to have lock in shells, both 221's and 239's were available from 1945 so equipped. Quite common down here in NZ; not so much for you Americans.

[rotorwrench]

Did they have 221 engines with C59 or C69 markings?

Ford USA only made replacement 221 blocks as far as I know (41A block) but it had 59 on the back bell with 3 1/16" cylinders since they used the same core for the back bell. I don't think they made any complete engines. They were replacement parts for engines used up during the war years. Canada did things different so I am always curious about their production.

[Brian]

Major difference in Canadian blocks is that they cast the series number on the bit of the block between No 1 cyl and the water pump,eg 81, 99, 01, 09, 19, C59A etc. Helps identify exactly what year and size engine you have in your possession.

One other difference is that starting with the 36 LB blocks, there are two, approx 5/8 dia holes machined in the oil pan rails. I guess they were used as reference points during machining operations. The rearmost of these holes can only be seen with the oil pan removed, however, the front one is visible at the front under the waterpump, and just in front of the pan vent. Burnett's photo in the 'scoop style crankcase vent' thread shows this very well.
The best thing about this front hole is, if you find a 35-36 block with that hole visible, it's an LB. Your Yankee blocks don't have that feature, and you normally have to remove pan and measure main bearing stud spacings to positively id.
Now we're going off the main gist of the original thread, but it is all related.

[rotorwrench]

I've seen most of the Canadian raised casting numbers on the blocks but I was wondering how they identified a 221 block made post war. The Dagenham plant in the UK used up the wartime 78 type 21-stud engines after the war by using them in the post war Pilot and possibly other vehicles.

I thing Ford painted the 41A blocks dark green to ID them while the 239 engines were dark blue. Of course the paint wore off not too many years after. A lot of folks freak out when they find their 59 block only has 3 1/16" cylinders bores. The characteristics of the 41A block are still prewar with the exception of the 59 on the back bell. They were still using the old cores for the 11A type block of 1941 except for the back part of the outer shell.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Brian

Rotor, Note the details in my earlier post; the C69A was not the only Canadian engine to have lock in shells, both 221's and 239's were available from 1945 so equipped. Quite common down here in NZ; not so much for you Americans.

My black early 47 coupe I sold in 1993 had a C69A put in it as the C59A it had in it was declared "junk" by my engine reconner. I remember being told it it had lock in bearings.... a sort of hybrid 8BA. C69 on the bell housing.

GB

[Ziggster]

I'm sure mine is cast with C59, but was rebuilt at one point, and the tag says C69 T A.