The Ford Barn

jetrod · 07-27-2017, 04:39 PM

In June I posted this inquiry;While chasing down a drive train noise I have found the crankshaft is not centered by about .015 in the horizontal. Dial indicating the recess in the flywheel housing reflects this and dial indicating the dowels that locate the flywheel housing also reflects this. So my transmission and motor (crankshaft) are offset by .015. Is this the source of my drive train noise? I have ruled out the differential and the transmission is recently rebuilt. Will the misalignment eventually effect the transmission? Thanks in advance, Jerry.. Now the results are in!!! I installed a new engine with the crankshaft in the proper place and BEHOLD the drive line noise is gone. SO WHAT DID I LEARN? As it turned out the the old engine that was rebuilt by an established rebuilder and was .025 of center (not .015) and none of my mechanic friends had ever even checked that dimension or knew of anyone who checked that dimension before reassembly, I wasn't alone in not looking for this with a new short block. SO WHAT SHOULD YOU LEARN? When getting ready to assemble a rebuilt engine make sure the builder has checked and warranted that the crank is in the right place. It Will save a lot of aggravation. (The builder who will remain nameless is making good on the error.) Jerry

Brian T · 07-27-2017, 05:28 PM

I learned something many years ago, always read the small print on a machine shops invoice, it states that the assembler is responsible for finding any errors with the machining, if you are capable of assembling an engine you must have some mechanical ability.

Synchro909 · 07-27-2017, 05:46 PM

At least the builder is making good. You could have ended up in deep doo doo!

harleytoprock · 07-27-2017, 06:34 PM

Did this happen because the main babbits were not line bored accurately?

jetrod · 07-27-2017, 08:10 PM

Definitly

Bob Johnson · 07-27-2017, 10:55 PM

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When you checked the flywheel did it "wobble" ? If the babbits were not line bored correctly then the flywheel would still turn without a wobble. However it would not be centered with respect of the housing. If the main journals were ground off center then there would be a wobble.

Bob

100IH · 07-28-2017, 09:32 AM

One more thing to check on the work that has been done, for the shops doing the work and for the customer. Obviously, more in the shops realm of responsibility. Good out come in the end, thank you for posting.

Bob Bidonde · 07-28-2017, 10:08 AM

Having had a bad experience which ruined a newly rebuilt engine because of the rebuilder's negligence, I have disassembled professionally rebuilt engines since. Not once have I found an engine that was 100% right in my opinion.

Some things I have found on several engines:
> Oil holes in connecting rods and main bearings under-size due to babbitt entering the holes;
> Oil drain pipe inserted in the rear main bearing too far;
> Plug material left in the rear main bearing oil drain passage;
> Valves out of adjustment;
> Valves guides not concentric with seats in the block;
> Improperly cut valve seats;
> Main bearing clearances too tight;
> Excessive oil leakage through studs of rear main bearing;
> Undersized cotter pins in connecting rod caps. These pins move when splashing through oil and eventually break-off into the crankcase;
> Improperly installed oil pan gasket;
> No assembly lube on camshaft and plunger;
> Dry rope seals at front of crankshaft;
> Oil pump tied up with clothesline. The rope disintegrated, clogged the oil pump screen and starved the bearings.

Kurt in NJ · 07-28-2017, 11:43 AM

When I took my 3000 mile after rebuilt engine down for adjusting bearings the rear main was crumbled ----2 other local people had engines done at the same shop--- but not installed, the first one we took apart the Babbitt looked ok, but the wadding was still in the oil holes, the second engine the Babbitt had no oil grooves or hole drilled to the oil pipe

This is when I decided how much worse could I do on my own

George Miller · 07-28-2017, 12:28 PM

Along with all those problems, some use there boring equipment with a bend in the boring bar. So when they mount there center boring support there mains will not be in line. problem is many people do not under stand what happens when you do things in a certain way. The only way to rebuild a engine is the right way. there are no short cuts. A lot of engine builders are not real machinest.

07-27-2017, 04:39 PM	#1
jetrod Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central NC Posts: 68	crankshaft misaligned--follow -up In June I posted this inquiry;While chasing down a drive train noise I have found the crankshaft is not centered by about .015 in the horizontal. Dial indicating the recess in the flywheel housing reflects this and dial indicating the dowels that locate the flywheel housing also reflects this. So my transmission and motor (crankshaft) are offset by .015. Is this the source of my drive train noise? I have ruled out the differential and the transmission is recently rebuilt. Will the misalignment eventually effect the transmission? Thanks in advance, Jerry.. Now the results are in!!! I installed a new engine with the crankshaft in the proper place and BEHOLD the drive line noise is gone. SO WHAT DID I LEARN? As it turned out the the old engine that was rebuilt by an established rebuilder and was .025 of center (not .015) and none of my mechanic friends had ever even checked that dimension or knew of anyone who checked that dimension before reassembly, I wasn't alone in not looking for this with a new short block. SO WHAT SHOULD YOU LEARN? When getting ready to assemble a rebuilt engine make sure the builder has checked and warranted that the crank is in the right place. It Will save a lot of aggravation. (The builder who will remain nameless is making good on the error.) Jerry

07-27-2017, 05:28 PM	#2
Brian T Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Diego,Ca Posts: 1,377	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up I learned something many years ago, always read the small print on a machine shops invoice, it states that the assembler is responsible for finding any errors with the machining, if you are capable of assembling an engine you must have some mechanical ability. __________________ Nothing can be made foolproof, ---- fools are ingenious bastards.

07-27-2017, 05:46 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up At least the builder is making good. You could have ended up in deep doo doo! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

07-27-2017, 06:34 PM	#4
harleytoprock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 438	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up Did this happen because the main babbits were not line bored accurately?

07-27-2017, 08:10 PM	#5
jetrod Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central NC Posts: 68	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up Definitly

07-27-2017, 10:55 PM	#6
Bob Johnson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: California Posts: 977	Confused Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When you checked the flywheel did it "wobble" ? If the babbits were not line bored correctly then the flywheel would still turn without a wobble. However it would not be centered with respect of the housing. If the main journals were ground off center then there would be a wobble. Bob

07-28-2017, 09:32 AM	#7
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up One more thing to check on the work that has been done, for the shops doing the work and for the customer. Obviously, more in the shops realm of responsibility. Good out come in the end, thank you for posting.

07-28-2017, 10:08 AM	#8
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,463	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up Having had a bad experience which ruined a newly rebuilt engine because of the rebuilder's negligence, I have disassembled professionally rebuilt engines since. Not once have I found an engine that was 100% right in my opinion. Some things I have found on several engines: > Oil holes in connecting rods and main bearings under-size due to babbitt entering the holes; > Oil drain pipe inserted in the rear main bearing too far; > Plug material left in the rear main bearing oil drain passage; > Valves out of adjustment; > Valves guides not concentric with seats in the block; > Improperly cut valve seats; > Main bearing clearances too tight; > Excessive oil leakage through studs of rear main bearing; > Undersized cotter pins in connecting rod caps. These pins move when splashing through oil and eventually break-off into the crankcase; > Improperly installed oil pan gasket; > No assembly lube on camshaft and plunger; > Dry rope seals at front of crankshaft; > Oil pump tied up with clothesline. The rope disintegrated, clogged the oil pump screen and starved the bearings. __________________ Bob Bidonde Last edited by Bob Bidonde; 07-28-2017 at 10:21 AM.

07-28-2017, 11:43 AM	#9
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up When I took my 3000 mile after rebuilt engine down for adjusting bearings the rear main was crumbled ----2 other local people had engines done at the same shop--- but not installed, the first one we took apart the Babbitt looked ok, but the wadding was still in the oil holes, the second engine the Babbitt had no oil grooves or hole drilled to the oil pipe This is when I decided how much worse could I do on my own

07-28-2017, 12:28 PM	#10
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: crankshaft misaligned--follow -up Along with all those problems, some use there boring equipment with a bend in the boring bar. So when they mount there center boring support there mains will not be in line. problem is many people do not under stand what happens when you do things in a certain way. The only way to rebuild a engine is the right way. there are no short cuts. A lot of engine builders are not real machinest.