Fan belt failure

[V8 Bob]

When I started learning about flatheads many years ago, the "B" series fan belts were what many recommended for 5/8" wide applications, and a 55" X 5/8" B 52 was perfect for mine.

The belt lasted 20K miles for 10 years but is totally shot with damage I've never seen. Small pulley diameters may be the problem. I have learned these B series belts are really for industrial applications, so I need recommendations on a better automotive belt, and wonder what you guys use.
I did find a NAPA 25 22553 belt that is one inch longer, but the 52" id/55" length would be better if possible. Thanks.
Bob

[51 MERC-CT]

Was your failed belt notched.
If not, maybe a notched belt would be better suited for the small pulleys.

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Was your failed belt notched.
If not, maybe a notched belt would be better suited for the small pulleys.

The B series are not notched, but the 25 series are.

[rotorwrench]

The rubber V-belt has been around since John Gates made the first one in 1917. They are to this day, hard to beat for power transmission. They only lost out to flat serpentine types due to reliability problems when changing directions many times as the flat design can do that better in that respect but doesn't necessarily grip as well.


Most modern V-belts are manufactured in metric sizes that don't necessarily cross over well to the inch sizes. This can lead to reliability issues that some of the modern replacements have experienced. If they are close, they will work but may not have a long life. Belts that are not wrapped can deteriorate faster than those that aren't but it also depends on the reinforcement chord quality internal to the belt design.


Rubber products start to deteriorate from the time of manufacture so they have a shelf life even if they aren't used at all. The wrapped type belt is lightly preserved from ozone deterioration and is less apt to become oil soaked if there is a seal leak. There is nothing wrong with using them.

[john in illinois]

I use 11/16” Gates greenstripe truck and bus belts. They are notched. I have had one on my model A Tudor for 10 years and 25,000 miles.

Here is a chart.

http://vaglinks.com/Docs/Catalogues/...Size_Lists.pdf

John

[V8 Bob]

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John,

That's the info I need. Looks like the TR 22545 is very close to what I want.
My local NAPA said they would get a couple of Green Stripe belts for me to compare. Now I know what to look for.

Curious that the NAPA belt 25 22553 I have now compares to the Gates TR 22553. I think some NAPA belts are made by Gates, so wonder what the 25 and TR mean? Thanks.
Bob

[Flathead Fever]

Gates had two different quality belts we used on the Verizon Fleet. I always stocked the green stripe belts. Some of those vehicles had four and five belts that were a pain in the butt to change. They kept their fleet vehicles up to 15-years so when it was time for belts I put the best ones I could buy to cutdown on amount of time I stood on my head installing belts. The Gates green stripe belts are the best of the aftermarket belts. The notches allows the belt to be for flexible.

We had a mechanic that could change several belts on a vehicle in just a couple of minutes. He stuck a screwdriver between the belt and pulley. Disabled the ignition. Then he hooked up a remote starter switch and flipped the belt right off the pulley. Then he got the new belt half started on the pulley and flipped it back on with the remote starter switch. Some of those vans where terrible to try and get down in there to loosen all those adjustments. I always did it the way you are suppose to because I knew what he was doing had to be damaging the belts. Plus how ever tight it was when he flipped it on there was how he left it. It had to be wiping out bearings. He told me when your at the dealer on commission you need to be fast. I wasn't at the dealer so I did it correctly, standing on my head. That's probably why I've had to back fusions and surgeries on both shoulders.

Save your old belt and cut it. Then it becomes a measuring tool. Back off the belt adjustment. Wrap the belt around the pulleys to the shortest length that you will be able to get on there. I keep a collection of different cut belts for figuring out what I need on hot rod projects where there are no catalogs to look up the application. You want the shortest belt you can get on there so when it stretches you still have room for more adjustment. They do stretch after a short run-in period. Its always a good idea to go back and check them after you have driven them a little bit. Do not overtighten them! If they are not squealing (slipping) they are good.

Remember, on a "V" belt, the sides of the belt are what is driving the pulley. Its very important to get the correct width of the belt and the correct pitch angle of the sides. If you put too narrow of a belt on the bottom of the belt will be driving the pulley which it is not how it is engineered to work.

Here is the Gates catalog to look up vintage Ford belts. Go to page 978 to 981 for the flatheads. Once you have the number go to John's chart above and verify it is the correct length and width. Verify it with your cutoff old belt. Then go to Rock Auto and order one unless you can get it locally so you do not have to pay for shipping.

https://www.gates.com/resources/reso...s-2016-catalog

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

John,

That's the info I need. Looks like the TR 22545 is very close to what I want.
My local NAPA said they would get a couple of Green Stripe belts for me to compare. Now I know what to look for.

Curious that the NAPA belt 25 22553 I have now compares to the Gates TR 22553. I think some NAPA belts are made by Gates, so wonder what the 25 and TR mean? Thanks.
Bob

"TR" stands for "Truck" Probably because of the width of the belt. No modern cars have belts as wide as the early flatheads did. The "TR" must be something new. It never existed when I was buying Gates belts at work.

Just to show you the correct way to tighten a belt. Here is a belt tensioner gauge. I have an old Ford Rotunda one out in the garage some place? Every belt catalog use to have a tension specification after the application. For instance, A flathead Ford Fan belt part number might have a 60 listed after it. You hook this tool onto the belt and it tells you the tension. I have never seen any mechanic use one. All the new cars have automatic belt tensioners so this obsolete, antique knowledge. Most mechanics usually make sure the belt deflects about an inch when you push on with your finger. We had a helper at work (Baby Huey). I told him to glue a rearview mirror back on the inside of a windshield. You had to hold that little mount in place with your thumb for about a minute until the glue cured. He was a big guy. He broke that windshield with his thumb! This is why the one-inch finger deflection test does not work everybody.

[Bob C]

Just add an X after the B for notched belt. BX-52 https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/ga...)+belt,1000582


Bob

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Just add an X after the B for notched belt. BX-52 https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/ga...)+belt,1000582
Bob

Thanks for info Bob. The big issue is these B series belts are rated industrial and not automotive. The notched BX belt probably would wear better but I will try the Green Stripe Gates next.

[rotorwrench]

I've noticed that NAPA uses some part of the original manufacturers part number in there numbering system when they repackage as their own. They do the same thing with Wix filters and a few other products I've searched for.

[V8 Bob]

Brought home a NAPA 25 22545 and a Gates TR 22545 Green Stripe. These are 55.08" in length, close enough to the 55" belt they replace. Both are notched and for automotive use, unlike the B series belts that are industrial, solid and will not tolerate tight radius.
Learned much about V-belts from the Barn and John's Gates V-belt link in post #5. Thanks to all!

Bob