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Old 04-04-2013, 09:03 PM   #1
Smitty
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Default Source for Babbitt

Anyone have a good source for babbitt? How much would typically be needed to babbitt the mains in a Model A block?

Thanks, Steve
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Smitty , I was looking at the vendors for Babbitt , but saw none .

I googled Babbitt material and many sources came up .
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:53 PM   #3
James Rogers
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Most babbitt comes from Canada.

http://www.carteralloys.com/bab.html
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #4
Smitty
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Thanks, I am new at this part of the process. What grade babbitt is used in engines?

Steve
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:32 AM   #5
James Rogers
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Ford used babbitt with an assay of;

86% tin
7% copper
6.5% antimony

Most babbitt suppliers call this Genuine Ford Babbitt.

1930 Coupe is right, if you have never done this, you have a long expensive learning curve ahead and the tooling for line boring will cost anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000$ not to mention the pouring mandrils.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:32 AM   #6
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

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There are many sources of babbitt, just poke around the internet.

At fordgarage.com Vince has a discussion of babbitt types. Most major shops are pouring type 2 babbitt. The type 11 babbitt is closer to the Ford blend, but some places will give you the correct blend. Keep in mind the true Ford blend is much more difficult to pour and must be a higher temp. Based on discussions the exact type of babbitt is not as critical as how it is poured and how the whole engine is machined and balanced. Generally the babbitt fails long before it should because of improper techniques in pouring and machining, not because it was not the right type of babbitt.
If you are looking at lead based babbitt, do not waste your time unless you are building a car for a museum that is not driven. Lead based babbitt is too soft for the engine. It will quickly work harden and fracture with all the pounding. Lead based babbitt is extremely easy to pour.

You will need a bunch of it since you will be pouring a lot to learn how to get it in successfully.

There are some rules for melting and using babbitt you must understand. It is important that they be followed to prevent larger crystals from being formed which cause micro cracking.

Then there is understanding how Ford built the engine and the high degree of precision you need to attain. Just having the tooling is not enough, you have to understand how to use it.

Not trying to scare you off, just trying to give you a idea of the scale of the job.
Too many try to slam the babbitt into the car and then scratch their heads when if fails in short time. Properly done you should have an engine comfortable running 55 (60 no problem if you want it to) on a stock drive line and expect it to last 50,000 to 80,000 miles. There is a reason why so many feel the top speed is only 45 MPH and it is all in a poorly rebuilt drive line.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Looking at Mcmaster-carr @ over $200 for 4lbs. Seems high.
I have the equipment and I have a mentor...
Tired of being held hostage by re-builders and motors that don't hold up.
All else fails I drop my flathead in.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Looking at Mcmaster-carr @ over $200 for 4lbs. Seems high.
I have the equipment and I have a mentor...
Tired of being held hostage by re-builders and motors that don't hold up.
All else fails I drop my flathead in.
I was able to buy a large bar of high speed babbit from a very old large hardware store (William's Hardware) in Mpls about 30 years ago for $15. Unfortunately when I tried to buy more about 10 years ago they no longer sell it.

If your babbit fails, I'd try again, or have an experienced shop do it. I wouldn't drop in a V8. Herm has posted some good babbit information on this site about doing babbit, and peening it as it cools. As mentioned there is a lot to learn, and I learned more from Herm's postings than I learned from reading a book about babbit.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

http://www.modeltford.com/item/R-BAB.aspx

4 pounds - $86.00
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Here is the place I have found. Rod

http://stores.acrosales.com/Categories.bok
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Thanks, Don Lang is actually close by.
All kidding aside I have not had good luck with Model A motors. I have been building my own motors for almost 50-years but have had to send my A motor out for the initial rebuild then for main bearings several times thereafter. First motor failed because main bearing babbitt separated from the block ($4k in this motor). Second motor was so tight it would not turn over until I loosened everything up beyond spec. Third motor rear main cap was hacked-up, took a rear main cap out of another motor and fitted it in place (this motor is running fine). Everyone wants to do an entire motor job. I mike'd the crank, cyl walls, ground and seated the valves. Did not need a complete motor job. I am now in the process of building a spare motor: crank is out being polished, cyl walls look good so a new set of rings should do it, I have a valve and seat grinders, and I will buy a set of rods. Just need to get the main bearings in place. I am of the opinion that it you want it done right-do it yourself.
S
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:57 PM   #12
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Thanks, Don Lang is actually close by.
All kidding aside I have not had good luck with Model A motors. I have been building my own motors for almost 50-years but have had to send my A motor out for the initial rebuild then for main bearings several times thereafter. First motor failed because main bearing babbitt separated from the block ($4k in this motor). Second motor was so tight it would not turn over until I loosened everything up beyond spec. Third motor rear main cap was hacked-up, took a rear main cap out of another motor and fitted it in place (this motor is running fine). Everyone wants to do an entire motor job. I mike'd the crank, cyl walls, ground and seated the valves. Did not need a complete motor job. I am now in the process of building a spare motor: crank is out being polished, cyl walls look good so a new set of rings should do it, I have a valve and seat grinders, and I will buy a set of rods. Just need to get the main bearings in place. I am of the opinion that it you want it done right-do it yourself.
S
Just remember Smitty, it's not the babbitts fault.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Does Al at Go Devil Garage do it?
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

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Originally Posted by tmiller6 View Post
21$ a pound is pretty high.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

You can purchase Government genuine and Nickel babbitt on Ebay. It will generally sell for $20-30 for a 4 1/2 pound bar. I started by practicing with just lead. We used to get the lead we wanted by scrounging it from grinding wheel centers. Till I got the hang of using the Kwik Way molds I had, then I switched over to the babbitt. Save any old babbitt from rods or engines you melt out as it can be recycled so to speak when the smelter reformulates it into homogenous bars.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Source for Babbitt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting View Post
Just remember Smitty, it's not the babbitts fault.
I know it is not the fault of the babbitt which is the exact reason I would like to continue using it in my motors. I have a friend close by who has been a great help in getting me started in learning this process. Some failures are ok, just keep on trying till you get it right.
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