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Old 07-27-2018, 09:20 AM   #1
fordmerc7
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Default Too much weight?

My '29 Town Sedan suddenly got wobbly steering when I put 3 adults in the rear seat and one in front. There has never been a problem before or since. (I terminated the "tour" for my guests at the end of the driveway - but later the car drove perfectly well without them).
Can too much weight in the rear seat change the balance sufficiently to bring out a minor misalignment of the front end? -it was scary!
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:33 AM   #2
daveymc29
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Default Re: Too much weight?

I have seen many large people in cars, even in gravity drags, with no problems.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:40 AM   #3
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Too much weight?

Check the tire pressures. They should be about 34-36psi if you are carrying extra people. 32psi may give a slightly softer ride, but a full Model A tends to get wobbly when the pressure is that low. The car will steer easier at 34-36psi and have less tendency to shimmy or pull to one side of the road or the other.
Be sure to check tire pressures after each winter, as you'll lose a few pounds over the winter months. Never fails around here in SE Iowa! I wish I could lose as many pounds during the winter.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Too much weight?

your alignment is way out of whack
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:11 AM   #5
Tacoma Bob
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Default Re: Too much weight?

Do a search for my PDF. f100 steering box issues resolved. What you described is in part how my car steered with just the wife and me. (Tudor). I chased this issue for several years. Lot of info and I hope you can glean some insight as to areas to inspect.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Too much weight?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordmerc7 View Post
My '29 Town Sedan suddenly got wobbly steering when I put 3 adults in the rear seat and one in front. There has never been a problem before or since. (I terminated the "tour" for my guests at the end of the driveway - but later the car drove perfectly well without them).
Can too much weight in the rear seat change the balance sufficiently to bring out a minor misalignment of the front end? -it was scary!

That happens when the rear suspension cannot cope with the added weight; front of the car is lifting taking weight off the front wheels. Maybe weakened rear spring and/or shocks. If it's a steering problem like others are suggesting why is it only happening with added rear weight?
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Too much weight?

I checked tire pressure: 34-36 except LF@ 32
I have reviewed Tacoma Bob's pdf: lots to think about and maybe do.
I was intrigued by the possibility of weight maldistribution causing the wobble since I have driven this car up to 40-45 mph on trips of 70-80 miles without problems.
M2M explains how my speculation could be correct. (I have newly rebuilt shocks but old springs.)
Thanks for comments
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Too much weight?

I have seen a lot of money being spent on rebuilding Model A’s over the years. Very offen people will completely rebuild everything but the springs. They just take them apart, sand or grind down, and paint/lube.

These cars have been sitting on there springs 24/7/365 for almost 90 years.

New springs make all the difference in the world.

I will say that our 1929 Sport Coupe does ride and handle very different with two up front and two in the rumble set. Steering is heavier and ride is harder. No wobble. Enjoy.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Too much weight?

I had the same problem with our phaeton. With one or two people in the front, no problem. Put someone in the back seat and the front end would shimmy. I tightened up the ends on the tie rod and so far the shimmy has not returned.

The toe-in was at 1/16" before adjusting the tie rod so I do not think it was an alignment problem. I have not had a chance to rechecked the alignment after the adjustment so I am not yet sure of how much it was affected.

Never thought of it being a problem with the rear spring, but it makes sense and I know both front and rear could use some attention.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Too much weight?

Definitely not the way it's supposed to be. My Fordor often gets 3 in the back and 3 in the front. Its a tight fit but doable. Rides just fine with all the weight. I do notice less pickup and more required brake pressure. No "wobble". The rear passengers sit basically right over the rear axle, so not taking weight off of the front.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Too much weight?

How do I find Tacoma bobs PDFs?


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Old 07-28-2018, 12:17 AM   #12
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: Too much weight?

Tire pressures checked out o.k. Good! Scratch that from your list of potential troublemakers. $10 down and we move on to Bennett Cerf. (Remember that catch phrase from the 1950's "What's My Line?" TV panel show?)
There were a couple different rear springs installed in Model A passenger cars, depending upon the body style and application. Of course, the heavier bodied Model A's received the heavier duty rear spring with 10 leaves, #A-5560-D, meaning mostly the Fordors and Town Sedans. The Tudor Sedan's rear spring also had 10 leaves, #A-5560-A. Even though the Tudor and Fordors/Town Sedans both had 10 leaves, there must have been a difference in spring tension, as the Fordors were a heavier car to start with and conceivably could carry more passengers than a Tudor Sedan because of the bench front seat. If both 10 leaf springs had the same resistance, Ford wouldn't have had two different part numbers. By comparison, the roadster had only 7 leaves (plus a dummy leaf on the bottom), followed by the various coupes with 8 leaves.
If your car had been restored by someone else from a pile of parts or a different rear end w/spring was shoved underneath your frame, it's possible that the wrong spring is in place. This wouldn't be as noticeable with only the driver or with one passenger seated up front. But put a couple adults in the rear seat - especially rotund adults - and the rear spring with either too few leaves or the wrong resistance will compress, lowering the rear end and raising the front end. This will cause weird steering and handling characteristics for sure!
Even if your spring has the correct number of leaves and is in fact an A-5560-D spring, it may be fatigued and no longer able to support the weight it was designed to carry. First things first. You should be able to determine the number of leaves in your rear spring by counting the visible ones beneath the rear crossmember and then feeling up inside it to count the shorter leaves up top. If you have less than 10 leaves, this may be your problem. Coupe springs with 8 leaves are very common. But even if there are 10 leaves, who can say if the spring is fatigued or if it came from a Tudor Sedan? Fully loaded, does your car squat in the rear with a commensurate lifting of the front end? The car should remain almost level fully loaded, or only dip down in the rear slightly.
Check out the number of leaves in the rear spring and whether the car squats in the rear when loaded with passengers, and you may have found the cause of the problem. If this began happening only recently, I'd say your rear spring has finally given up the ghost and is sagging when over-burdened by the extra passenger weight. A new correct resistance rear spring for a Fordor ain't cheap, but it will make a world of difference if you have the wrong spring or it's dead. Not much point in owning a Fordor Model A if you can't haul passengers around seated in the rear!
Marshall

Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 07-28-2018 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Too much weight?

By the way, if you have a heavy original style metal trunk (not a wooden repo) and no additional long leaf or two was added to the rear spring to compensate for this extra weight, that's too much weight in the rear already. Adding passengers will almost certainly push down the back of the car in such a case. Most guys add that additional lower leaf (or two) if they have a heavy trunk, such as a metal Kari-Keen or similar VERY heavy trunk.
Do you have such a trunk? That still wouldn't explain why this problem all of a sudden began, but it could be a contributing factor for the spring to have begun sagging.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Too much weight?

If you got a scary death wobble (even just the one time) , needless to say, something is not set up properly and it is doubtful that having more people in the car had anything to do with it. Your problem is probably in the front end. Hopefully, by now, you have checked / tightened the steering arm, wishbone, and tie rods and visually inspected the steering arm balls for roundness. Because it has only happened once, it is going to be more difficult to ascertain the improvement in drive-ability that any changes you make will have. For me, driving over railroad tracks always seemed to get my wobble going. King pins too, are always a likely suspect. My king pins tested ok but, when I finally took them apart for a closer examination, the pressed bearing in one front spindle bolt bore fell right out. My point is, you will probably have to check many things looking for the smallest clue as to what may be the cause of your wobble. Good Luck...…….!
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:36 PM   #15
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How do I find Tacoma bobs PDFs?


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