The EPA has spoken on ethanol..Fact not politics

[denis4x4]

https://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...comments-block

[Kevin in NJ]

These decisions are not likely fact based, but are supportive of the close cooperation between industry and government. What valid science I can find show ethanol to not be so good on a bunch of levels.

To put it plan terms companies are making a lot of money doing this.

To bring it around to the Model A perspective, well we can adapt our cars to live with ethanol. We do not have rubber in the fuel system and we can adjust the carbs to run a bit richer. Just a matter of figuring out how much we need to open up the jets.

Keep in mind one of the gas companies did not sell lead based fuels as I recall. They were adding ethanol back then to boost octane.

The best we can do is understand how to change our cars to run better with the fuel and let the proper people know how you feel about the situation.

As for the airplanes, they are working on solutions to remove the lead from gas.

[Fullraceflathead]

Trump most likely will do away with the EPA or restructure it.
I personally can't wait!

[Marvin/TN]

Using ethanol in aircraft could and most likely cause major problems, some air craft have rubber bladder fuel tanks plus the fact that ethanol absorbs water. What happens when water freezes, as we know it would block fuel filters lines etc. Engines don't run too well when that happens and when it does you can't pull over to the side of the road and call AAA. It gets very cold at 20,000/30,000 Ft. It is a fact that sometimes a water/alcohol mixture on take off to make the air denser which makes more power for the engine. But it isn't in the fuel tank but is a separate tank and injected in the carb/fuel control as it is used. Some of what I just said is old school. One plane that I know of used 720 gal of distilled water on take off and what wasn't used was dumped after getting air born. AS far as them putting in Av gas/fuel now I could ask a friend a retired Senior VP of a major oil company. And Jet fuel has a lot of moister in it already so I am sure more water should not be added to it. Jet A fuel is the same thing as going to wal Mart and buying a bottle of lamp oil just filtered a little better.

[mhsprecher]

Henry Ford wanted to move to ethanol fuel because he hated the oil companies and wanted farmers to benefit from the production of ethanol.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

Another fact:

You don't see or hear about anyone associated with the EPA flying airplanes (even new ones) fueled by aviation fuel laced with any ethanol.

You obviously haven't noticed that quite a few STCs (THOUSANDS) have been issued by the FAA to operate some light aircraft on "AUTOFUEL"? Read below, straight from an EAA site! DD

Auto Fuel STC

"EAA began testing and evaluating alternate fuels for aircraft piston engines in 1964. These included not only automobile gasoline, but also ethanol.
In 1982, EAA successfully changed FAA policy to consider the use of automobile gasoline in aircraft. The EAA type certificate program resulted in an FAA Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) being issued for the use of automobile gasoline, rather than aviation gasoline, in the Cessna 150 aircraft, powered by a Continental O-200 engine.
The first pilot to legally fly in an aircraft with automobile gasoline was then-FAA Administrator Lynn Helms. Since then, more than 24,000 STCs have been issued by EAA."

[Electrocutioner]

As a pilot and an aircraft owner, I can tell you the aviation community is well divided on the use of "auto fuel" vs. fuel with ethanol added. The guys in areas with ethanol in their fuel say ALL auto fuel is bad and the guys that have non ethanol fuel available say IT'S PERFECTLY FINE (and cheaper!) LOL. I don't have an opinion myself because my airplane has a specific STC that prohibits auto fuel so I don't have the option. I do however choose to run 100 low lead in my model A and it loves it. I run the 100LL because it won't go bad or hurt any seals, no need to add sta-bil or anything like that if it's not run for a while..

[PC/SR]

Have any planes gone down because of ethanol in the fuel? Please, only proven stories, not what your uncle told you his friend heard from his brother in law.
I am so old that there was no ethanol around when I was flying.

[DaWizard]

*Bites tongue*

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Electrocutioner

As a pilot and an aircraft owner, I can tell you the aviation community is well divided on the use of "auto fuel" vs. fuel with ethanol added. The guys in areas with ethanol in their fuel say ALL auto fuel is bad and the guys that have non ethanol fuel available say IT'S PERFECTLY FINE (and cheaper!) LOL. I don't have an opinion myself because my airplane has a specific STC that prohibits auto fuel so I don't have the option. I do however choose to run 100 low lead in my model A and it loves it. I run the 100LL because it won't go bad or hurt any seals, no need to add sta-bil or anything like that if it's not run for a while..

Can I go to my local (Danbury KDXR) airport and buy avgas - filling a gas can? I didn't think I could?

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Have any planes gone down because of ethanol in the fuel? Please, only proven stories, not what your uncle told you his friend heard from his brother in law.
I am so old that there was no ethanol around when I was flying.

I don't have any stories about ethanol causing problems in planes STC'd for auto fuel, but plenty of instances of fouled plugs with 100 LL.

(private pilot and former FBO owner/operator).

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead

Trump most likely will do away with the EPA or restructure it.
I personally can't wait!

Please keep in mind that ethanol in fuel is not something the EPA is forcing on us. As stated in the article linked to by the OP, it was MANDATED by Congress in the Renewable Fuel Standard Act of 2007. Also pointed out in the article is the fact that the same act stipulates total renewable fuel volumes to rise to 36 billion gallons by 2022. Guess who had control of the executive, senate and house in 2007.

Also, don't count on Trump to take ethanol out of gasoline...

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-env...thanol-mandate

"Donald Trump said Tuesday that federal regulators should increase the amount of ethanol blended into the nation’s gasoline supply."

[Cornishman]

I run E10 (10%) ethanol in all my cars because they run better on it than on the equivalent octane traditional fuel. None of the modern cars or the older ones suffer from the side effects related to some rubber and plastics so there is no problem whatsoever. More efficient, cheaper and environmentally superior, what's not to like? Sometimes moving with the times is not a bad thing.

[Dino's A]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

I run E10 (10%) ethanol in all my cars because they run better on it than on the equivalent octane traditional fuel. None of the modern cars or the older ones suffer from the side effects related to some rubber and plastics so there is no problem whatsoever. More efficient, cheaper and environmentally superior, what's not to like? Sometimes moving with the times is not a bad thing.

Your Kidding right? Tell this piece to Jay Leno. I never had my aviation fuel hoses fail within 5 years, accelerator pump diaphragms leak, fuel pump regulator leaks, until ethanol was put in our gas.

[captndan]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Have any planes gone down because of ethanol in the fuel? Please, only proven stories, not what your uncle told you his friend heard from his brother in law.
I am so old that there was no ethanol around when I was flying.

Yes there was. But it was blended for drinking after the flight.

[prpmmp]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

I run E10 (10%) ethanol in all my cars because they run better on it than on the equivalent octane traditional fuel. None of the modern cars or the older ones suffer from the side effects related to some rubber and plastics so there is no problem whatsoever. More efficient, cheaper and environmentally superior, what's not to like? Sometimes moving with the times is not a bad thing.

I have to agree with Cornishman!! Have a 06 and 08 DD, My fake coupe(8BA) 37 Chevy truck with a 87 305,Lawn cutting machine(Write with a Kawi 19 hp), pressure washer (briggs),generator (briggs),push mower(sears), echo weedwacker, stile chain saw. never had a problem with gas,If gas is going to sit for awhile I put in green stabil. Another thing is I use to same type of oil in all the 4 stroke engines (5-30 Castrol edge synthetic). This does not mean others have not had problems its that I have not(lucky). Pete

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by prpmmp

I have to agree with Cornishman!! Have a 06 and 08 DD, My fake coupe(8BA) 37 Chevy truck with a 87 305,Lawn cutting machine(Write with a Kawi 19 hp), pressure washer (briggs),generator (briggs),push mower(sears), echo weedwacker, stile chain saw. never had a problem with gas,If gas is going to sit for awhile I put in green stabil. Another thing is I use to same type of oil in all the 4 stroke engines (5-30 Castrol edge synthetic). This does not mean others have not had problems its that I have not(lucky). Pete

I'm another "lucky" one. My current fleet is 2 newish daily drivers, 69 Mercedes 250, MGB with a 3.5 aluminum Rover V8, stock Model A, Honda pressure washer, Husqvarna chain saw, two lawn mowers...and over 30 collector cars and three v8 powered boats in the last 20 years . No fuel related problems. All run on e10.

We've really beat this subject to death. No minds are going to be changed at this point.

[dumb person]

Ethanol at 10% has something like 12.5% less BTU of energy in it than regular dinosaur based fuel. So you don't even get back what you put in, you use even more dinosaurs than normal. It's a disaster waiting to happen. And a waste of good dinosaurs. And it turns fuel stale rapidly.
Dumb idea to blend it. Either use it undiluted or not at all. (Most engines don't like it undiluted anyway...)

[Bruce of MN]

I tried a tankful no ethanol gas in my 2013 Ford Fusion and the mpg didn't increase, which surprised me. But then, neither did new plugs at 103K miles, either.

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

https://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...comments-block

The EPA and ethanol, like Carrier in Indiana has someone new to report to... So hold the phone on 100% gasoline going away.