The Ford Barn

pj's junkers · 02-02-2017, 11:19 AM

I have a 60-A in pieces with the vent door. Frame stamped 7-18-1928. Date on upper firewall is 6-26-28. No body number. Then I have what I was calling a 29 60-B. However reading here I now believe it to be a 60-A. Gas tank date 12-10-28, Body number 190-85519 and is on a thin strip with 3 tacks holding it on of what appears to copper. The motor is not correct as it is a 1930 and the car is intact so the frame number is unknown. This car was aquired by my uncle in about 1965 and titled as a 29. Aren't all the interesting facts about A's intriguing. You learn something all the time. Philip

Todd Sgamba · 07-27-2017, 08:24 PM

I have a 1929 60A. The body number on the tag is A608013. It was built on April 17, 1929. I have had this car since 1976. I got it from my uncle, who bought it from the original owner in 1941.It had dealer installed dual side mounts and cowl lights, all purchased by the original owner. It still has the original interior. the top has been removed because of extensive rust damage. When I got this car from my uncle, it had the same chocolate brown top on it that was on it when he bought it in 1941. I've had 1 person tell me that the top must have been replaced before 1941, because the 60A wasn't still available in April 1929. Nobody I've talked to knows when the 60A was discontinued. When I removed the top material for restoration, it was very brittle but it's always definitely been brown. It also had the correct seams and hardware and the metal rain strips down the sides appear to have never been removed. Does anyone know if indeed the 60A was still produced in April 1929? Thanks, Todd

asapguy · 07-28-2017, 11:12 AM

Interesting thread. It got my curiosity up so I went and checked my 60B, at least I thought it was a B & not an A. The car only has approx. 65K miles. The firewall date is 1-12-29. The # on Briggs tag on the pass. side floor 190 - 103272.
As long as there are some 60-A-B owners reading this. I have a question about the rear seam on the top. My top had been replaced at some point & the seam was carried over to the back of the drip moldings on both sides. I have seen a few leatherbacks that were this way. Two are pictured in the "Henry's Lady" book. Most just have the seam across the back and extend about 10" around to the side. I did not extend mine all the way to the trip molding which to me looks much better.

chuckstinn · 07-28-2017, 12:37 PM

My 60A has body tag # 190-43392
Engine # is A390XXX
Firewall date stamp is 9-25-28
No vent
Car is my avatar

Russ · 07-28-2017, 08:54 PM

Todd, I've been doing research on these cars and I haven't come across a 60-A beyond Jan. '29. Where did the April 17, 1929 date come from? The firewall on the gas tank? Maybe the tank was replaced during the life of the car(?).

The number you list as a body number (A608013) does not match the Briggs serial number format, but it does match a Model A frame/engine number from November 1928. The Briggs body number would be on a tag nailed to the wood near the front passengers sill plate and would have the format 190-XXXX. A lot of people look right past it and don't even notice it.

Russ

Todd Sgamba · 07-29-2017, 09:08 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by asapguy

Interesting thread. It got my curiosity up so I went and checked my 60B, at least I thought it was a B & not an A. The car only has approx. 65K miles. The firewall date is 1-12-29. The # on Briggs tag on the pass. side floor 190 - 103272.
As long as there are some 60-A-B owners reading this. I have a question about the rear seam on the top. My top had been replaced at some point & the seam was carried over to the back of the drip moldings on both sides. I have seen a few leatherbacks that were this way. Two are pictured in the "Henry's Lady" book. Most just have the seam across the back and extend about 10" around to the side. I did not extend mine all the way to the trip molding which to me looks much better.

Throughout the years, I have been in contact with about a half a dozen 60A and B owners who have the original tops or replaced the original tops on their cars. All of them had the main seam with welting that only went across the back top edge of the body. It did not continue around the sides. Todd

Todd Sgamba · 07-29-2017, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Todd, I've been doing research on these cars and I haven't come across a 60-A beyond Jan. '29. Where did the April 17, 1929 date come from? The firewall on the gas tank? Maybe the tank was replaced during the life of the car(?).

The number you list as a body number (A608013) does not match the Briggs serial number format, but it does match a Model A frame/engine number from November 1928. The Briggs body number would be on a tag nailed to the wood near the front passengers sill plate and would have the format 190-XXXX. A lot of people look right past it and don't even notice it.

Russ

Hi Russ - That's an excellent group of questions. There are two screw or nail sized holes on the passenger side wood sill. I'm assuming that's where the original ID tag was. I've read a lot about this over the years and don't know why it was removed. when I got the car in '76, there was a body # tag attached to the firewall with the current ID#. Unfortunately, my uncle passed away many years ago, before I was researching this, so, I can't ask him. To the best of my knowledge, the tank is original. The engine (which is original) and the frame #'s match. They are A1410947. I went on the MARC website and one of the links showed date of manufacture pretty much dead on with the gas tank date. I don't know if, why, or when this ID number was assigned to the car. I know the firewall is not the correct place for the tag anyway. I'm now in the process of a complete restoration of the car. body is off. Found lots of hidden treasures but no original body tag. =( THANKS! Todd

100IH · 07-29-2017, 10:06 AM

Russ and Steve, I have seen an early 60-A with the cowl vent that had a completely different interior dash rail and wood cross piece under the rail. It has been sold and is gone so I have no pictures or numbers. Never saw this mentioned in any literature. Are there others?

asapguy · 07-29-2017, 10:14 AM

The left picture shoes the top on my car when orig. purchased back in 08. The other picture show the way it looks now after I replaced it in 2012 and the seam does not extend around to the molding. I have seen several with the seams that extend on the sides to the drip molding. Including several pictures in the Henry's Lady book published in the early 70's.

jm29henry · 07-30-2017, 07:58 AM

From what I was told your second picture is correct .Many top installers have trouble laying the top and cut it there so they can get it to lay flat and add the bead to hide there cut look good but not correct mine was done in 1971 wrong just like your picture on the left my top does not leak and is still in good shape so I will leave mine as is but I wish it was correct. I don't know how to post a pic on a thred but if you go threw my profile my car has pictures there

Tom Wesenberg · 07-30-2017, 01:50 PM

The second picture does look much better.
Elizabeth from Classtique Upholstery did a demonstration for our club on installing one of these tops.
She did a beautiful job, and she stitched it the correct way, as your second picture shows.

asapguy · 07-30-2017, 05:57 PM

The 2nd picture is the way I did the top myself when I did it back in 2012. I helped a friend do a 60A with the correct brown top several yrs ago. His wood was not good which made the job difficult (tacks wouldn't hold). I heard the factory that provided the brown material burned a few yrs. ago & L-B was unable to get it. Another friend had to order black top & spray it brown. A fellow barner has contacted me from R. Is. and wanted some directions in installing his top on a 60A. He said he got a brown top from Classtique. I sent him lots of pictures.

supergnat · 07-30-2017, 06:58 PM

Russ and Steve,
My 28 Oct 28 leatherback still has the original interior, top and engine. I think I have already provided my data to Russ and Steve in the past. The car color is not original and I think the top was painted black when the car color was changed. I am the fourth owner and the car has has always been titled in NJ.. I have the original bill of sale which matches the engine number. I also added a fresh coat of black paint to the top to dress it up a little. It is obvoiusly not a high points car and never will be as long as I own it. The following link is from one of me Barn albums showing photos ot the top. I also have an ablum of interior photos. Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know or see and I'll see what I can do to accomodate your request. Http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2055. Supergnat

Lightman7 · 08-30-2022, 11:55 AM

Question: I'm newly aware of Fordors, as I have the opportunity to buy my grandfathers (I have drop tops - cabriolet, phaeton, etc.) Is there somewhere that lists the differences between the 60A and 60B? The car is unrestored and has a Jan 29 engine number.

rotorwrench · 08-31-2022, 01:19 PM

It's probably a 60A if it has characteristics or dating before February of 1929. Here is a link to Vince's site. It shows the dates and some overlap on the blind back types.
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/US2831bodystyles.htm

Ayers1 · 08-31-2022, 05:39 PM

I have a 28 built 10/8/28. It's original colors were a seal brown/rose beige combination so I assume that the original top was brown.

Russ · 08-31-2022, 09:45 PM

The 60-A and 60-B were nearly identical except for production changes common to all body styles. The obvious difference is that the 60-A had a seal brown top while the 60-B had a black top, but the tops have been replaced on many of the surviving cars. From owner data and information, it appears that the switch from 60-A to 60-B occurred very near to new year (1929).

JC60B · 09-03-2022, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It's probably a 60A if it has characteristics or dating before February of 1929. Here is a link to Vince's site. It shows the dates and some overlap on the blind back types.
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/US2831bodystyles.htm

I have a Canadian car built on February 13 1929. Did Canadian cars switch over to 60B the same time as US? This Ford garage site mentions New Zealand cars as 60A in February but no mention of Canadian cars. My car’s body plate was missing and the top basically gone. It does have some’28 stuff on it and I was told it probably came that way being built in February. Well I built it as a 60B. I think black top looks better with the dark blue anyway.

supergnat · 09-03-2022, 08:29 PM

Lightman 7 Check the link in my response #33 to see photos of my Oct 1928 60A. Note that the colors are not original but most of the other things are. Be sure to post photos when you have a chance

rotorwrench · 09-04-2022, 12:27 AM

Ford of Canada had a history of differences over the early years so nothing surprises me. Canada supplied a good portion of the Commonwealth countries but what I am unsure of is if Briggs made their bodies. They made all those 60 series bodies and shipped them to all the US branch plants as well as the Rouge. Shipping them across the Detroit River is not a very long trip.

02-02-2017, 11:19 AM	#21
pj's junkers Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vivian, La Posts: 215	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans I have a 60-A in pieces with the vent door. Frame stamped 7-18-1928. Date on upper firewall is 6-26-28. No body number. Then I have what I was calling a 29 60-B. However reading here I now believe it to be a 60-A. Gas tank date 12-10-28, Body number 190-85519 and is on a thin strip with 3 tacks holding it on of what appears to copper. The motor is not correct as it is a 1930 and the car is intact so the frame number is unknown. This car was aquired by my uncle in about 1965 and titled as a 29. Aren't all the interesting facts about A's intriguing. You learn something all the time. Philip

07-27-2017, 08:24 PM	#22
Todd Sgamba Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Escalon, Ca Posts: 25	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans I have a 1929 60A. The body number on the tag is A608013. It was built on April 17, 1929. I have had this car since 1976. I got it from my uncle, who bought it from the original owner in 1941.It had dealer installed dual side mounts and cowl lights, all purchased by the original owner. It still has the original interior. the top has been removed because of extensive rust damage. When I got this car from my uncle, it had the same chocolate brown top on it that was on it when he bought it in 1941. I've had 1 person tell me that the top must have been replaced before 1941, because the 60A wasn't still available in April 1929. Nobody I've talked to knows when the 60A was discontinued. When I removed the top material for restoration, it was very brittle but it's always definitely been brown. It also had the correct seams and hardware and the metal rain strips down the sides appear to have never been removed. Does anyone know if indeed the 60A was still produced in April 1929? Thanks, Todd

07-28-2017, 11:12 AM	#23
asapguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Snohomish Wa. Posts: 389	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Interesting thread. It got my curiosity up so I went and checked my 60B, at least I thought it was a B & not an A. The car only has approx. 65K miles. The firewall date is 1-12-29. The # on Briggs tag on the pass. side floor 190 - 103272. As long as there are some 60-A-B owners reading this. I have a question about the rear seam on the top. My top had been replaced at some point & the seam was carried over to the back of the drip moldings on both sides. I have seen a few leatherbacks that were this way. Two are pictured in the "Henry's Lady" book. Most just have the seam across the back and extend about 10" around to the side. I did not extend mine all the way to the trip molding which to me looks much better.

07-28-2017, 12:37 PM	#24
chuckstinn Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: California Posts: 43	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans My 60A has body tag # 190-43392 Engine # is A390XXX Firewall date stamp is 9-25-28 No vent Car is my avatar

07-28-2017, 08:54 PM	#25
Russ Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 52	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Todd, I've been doing research on these cars and I haven't come across a 60-A beyond Jan. '29. Where did the April 17, 1929 date come from? The firewall on the gas tank? Maybe the tank was replaced during the life of the car(?). The number you list as a body number (A608013) does not match the Briggs serial number format, but it does match a Model A frame/engine number from November 1928. The Briggs body number would be on a tag nailed to the wood near the front passengers sill plate and would have the format 190-XXXX. A lot of people look right past it and don't even notice it. Russ

07-29-2017, 10:06 AM	#28
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Russ and Steve, I have seen an early 60-A with the cowl vent that had a completely different interior dash rail and wood cross piece under the rail. It has been sold and is gone so I have no pictures or numbers. Never saw this mentioned in any literature. Are there others?

07-30-2017, 07:58 AM	#30
jm29henry Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: michigan Posts: 1,126	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans From what I was told your second picture is correct .Many top installers have trouble laying the top and cut it there so they can get it to lay flat and add the bead to hide there cut look good but not correct mine was done in 1971 wrong just like your picture on the left my top does not leak and is still in good shape so I will leave mine as is but I wish it was correct. I don't know how to post a pic on a thred but if you go threw my profile my car has pictures there

07-30-2017, 01:50 PM	#31
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans The second picture does look much better. Elizabeth from Classtique Upholstery did a demonstration for our club on installing one of these tops. She did a beautiful job, and she stitched it the correct way, as your second picture shows.

07-30-2017, 05:57 PM	#32
asapguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Snohomish Wa. Posts: 389	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans The 2nd picture is the way I did the top myself when I did it back in 2012. I helped a friend do a 60A with the correct brown top several yrs ago. His wood was not good which made the job difficult (tacks wouldn't hold). I heard the factory that provided the brown material burned a few yrs. ago & L-B was unable to get it. Another friend had to order black top & spray it brown. A fellow barner has contacted me from R. Is. and wanted some directions in installing his top on a 60A. He said he got a brown top from Classtique. I sent him lots of pictures.

07-30-2017, 06:58 PM	#33
supergnat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palmyra, NJ Posts: 475	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Russ and Steve, My 28 Oct 28 leatherback still has the original interior, top and engine. I think I have already provided my data to Russ and Steve in the past. The car color is not original and I think the top was painted black when the car color was changed. I am the fourth owner and the car has has always been titled in NJ.. I have the original bill of sale which matches the engine number. I also added a fresh coat of black paint to the top to dress it up a little. It is obvoiusly not a high points car and never will be as long as I own it. The following link is from one of me Barn albums showing photos ot the top. I also have an ablum of interior photos. Let me know if there is anything else you would like to know or see and I'll see what I can do to accomodate your request. Http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2055. Supergnat Last edited by supergnat; 07-30-2017 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Correct typo"s

08-30-2022, 11:55 AM	#34
Lightman7 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 38	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Question: I'm newly aware of Fordors, as I have the opportunity to buy my grandfathers (I have drop tops - cabriolet, phaeton, etc.) Is there somewhere that lists the differences between the 60A and 60B? The car is unrestored and has a Jan 29 engine number.

08-31-2022, 01:19 PM	#35
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans It's probably a 60A if it has characteristics or dating before February of 1929. Here is a link to Vince's site. It shows the dates and some overlap on the blind back types. https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/US2831bodystyles.htm

08-31-2022, 05:39 PM	#36
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 211	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans I have a 28 built 10/8/28. It's original colors were a seal brown/rose beige combination so I assume that the original top was brown.

08-31-2022, 09:45 PM	#37
Russ Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 52	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans The 60-A and 60-B were nearly identical except for production changes common to all body styles. The obvious difference is that the 60-A had a seal brown top while the 60-B had a black top, but the tops have been replaced on many of the surviving cars. From owner data and information, it appears that the switch from 60-A to 60-B occurred very near to new year (1929).

09-03-2022, 08:29 PM	#39
supergnat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palmyra, NJ Posts: 475	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Lightman 7 Check the link in my response #33 to see photos of my Oct 1928 60A. Note that the colors are not original but most of the other things are. Be sure to post photos when you have a chance

09-04-2022, 12:27 AM	#40
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: The 60-A, B, C Fordor Sedans Ford of Canada had a history of differences over the early years so nothing surprises me. Canada supplied a good portion of the Commonwealth countries but what I am unsure of is if Briggs made their bodies. They made all those 60 series bodies and shipped them to all the US branch plants as well as the Rouge. Shipping them across the Detroit River is not a very long trip.