Anyone heard from TOD lately about casting a new block?

[deuce_roadster]

I haven't seen any post by TOD for a long time. I hope his health hasn't deteriorated as he was quite elderly and had a history of issues.
Does anyone know what his name is? Is TOD his initials? I just sent a PM to that username so maybe he will reply.
Just curious.

[tubman]

I'd like to know as well.

Funny, I got the impression that he was a younger guy.

[JSeery]

That's what I thought as well. If your referring to the Tod that cast engine blocks, he posted today on the model A site.

[deuce_roadster]

I thought I read in one of his previous posts that he had a stroke and was only able to work about 3 hours a day. Was in the process of setting up his own foundry.
I sent him a PM, glad he is still posting at least on the Model A forum.

[V8COOPMAN]

I believe TOD's heart is really over on the A-bone side of the house. He lives over on the "A" forum and posts frequently. I'm sure that he's serious about this new V8, and it's likely that he is as qualified to pull this off as anyone else, but considering how many irons he has in the fire Model A-wise as well as other Ford engine castings he has going, I think he is trying to fit this flathead project in (at OUR urging) as he finds precious "spare" time. I also think that to TOD, this is more of a personal challenge for him to meet, exemplifying his abilities rather than a necessary project to put more food on his table. I'm also curious to see what his "updated twist" on a "new" flatty ends-up being. You GO, Tod! DD

[Frank Miller]

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Tod is doing well and working on Model A stuff. I see him on facebook and he does some really amazing stuff. Yesterday he said he was playing his guitar trying to adapt to having had a stroke, not sure when that was. He is really an amazing knowledgeable guy.

[deuce5wndw]

I read the model A side also and he has threads with photos about his 5 main aluminum blocks, heads, and even a overhead valve conversion for model A. Very impressive stuff!

[rotorwrench]

He just got a nice casting of the Miller-Schofield 1930 cylinder head that are rare as hens teeth. His model A block castings are coming along too. Keep in mind that the L-head V8 is one of the most difficult blocks to cast so it will take time. He has done other Ford V8 blocks successfully. Funds have to come in to make all this stuff a reality. Lets just keep up the hope that this will happen. I don't think anyone else in the world that cares enough to do what he is doing.

[19Fordy]

I wonder if TOD and Mark Kirby know each other as both are working on casting 8BA blocks?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I wonder if TOD and Mark Kirby know each other as both are working on casting 8BA blocks?

Kirby's new block (it's actually getting kind of old now and STILL hasn't been released) is pretty unique in several ways. It is an aluminum casting, and one bizarre feature to facilitate the huge increase in bore diameter is the re-arrangement of head bolt holes threaded into the deck. This means that stock or aftermarket performance Ford flathead cylinder heads will not bolt to this block. In fact, I believe there are more proprietary (Mark Kirby), non-traditional parts that must be used on this "jewel" that is slated to hit the streets (as has been widely-advertised for YEARS) ANY MINUTE NOW!
And the last I heard (quite a few years back) was that the retail on this beast was going to be $12K +! With just a little inflationary adjustment, I wouldn't be surprised at something closer to $19,995, or even MORE! Folks will be standing in line...…….NOT! I've just read recently that someone noted that the test engine has just been transplanted into an early '50s Ford. Obviously, they're still workin' out a few minor, last minute bugs. DD

[Russ/40]

I believe Tod's last name is Butterfield.


Apparently not. don't know where I got that.

[JOHNCL]

Is that Miller-Schofield head the twin cam design?

[derek costello]

There is a video of Kirby telling a bunch of guys at a car show all about the new flathead aluminum V8. It comes with a new crankshaft but uses all most other
ford flathead parts, I think it is 300 cubic inches.
He has about 10,000 miles on one of the 6 samples in his own car, claims no troubles. But like the model A guy he has problems with his health............

[Bored&Stroked]

I've seen the Kirby design and I don't think it is something that could be easily produced at an affordable price . . . the cylinder setup is just too goofy. I'm not going to comment on how "I would have done it" - but the design is not viable in my eyes and I'm sure that is one of the reasons that he and/or Shadow Rods never brought it to market. There would not be any volume for it, it can't be sanctioned in racing and the cost of a fully built engine would be just too high - to sell enough of them to ever make a profit.

That is the general problem in anybody trying to make a flathead block . . . how many could you possibly sell . . . for what price?

There is probably no economic justification to do it - other than maybe somebody like Tod who is already doing a lot of this goofy vintage stuff, has foundry experience, may make his own foundry, etc.. Damn near has to be a very small, super-talented and unique situation/setup for it to have any chance to work. With that said, boy would I like a 3.5" bore, aluminum block with improved flow and replaceable liners . . . would be the "cats ass". LOL

[deuce_roadster]

From what I have heard, Kirby is just the sales person, front man. The brains and knowledge of that project lie with other people. He definitely is no TOD.
Thanks for all the posts, I knew TOD has some kind of relationship with Snyders on the 4 cylinder stuff. His kind of knowledge is disappearing.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I haven't seen any post by TOD for a long time. I hope his health hasn't deteriorated as he was quite elderly and had a history of issues.
Does anyone know what his name is? Is TOD his initials? I just sent a PM to that username so maybe he will reply.
Just curious.

Yup, that is his FIRST name. He is a relatively young sturdy hard working man ....a one man ‘army’, so to speak.
A TON on his plate, without access to qualified help , these days, in his opinion and field of work.

Lots to be said, but suffice to say that he is a busy business owner.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

I believe Tod's last name is Butterfield.

No.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by JOHNCL

Is that Miller-Schofield head the twin cam design?

No. It is a copy of my original Schofield. This head AFTER Miller, and before bidness was sold to Cregar.
So, without getting technical, look at any Cragar/ Schofield/Denver Millerand you’ll get the idea.
To get technical,for a moment and for good reason, the Miller SLOPE SIDE OHV head was one of a kind.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I've seen the Kirby design and I don't think it is something that could be easily produced at an affordable price . . . the cylinder setup is just too goofy. I'm not going to comment on how "I would have done it" - but the design is not viable in my eyes and I'm sure that is one of the reasons that he and/or Shadow Rods never brought it to market. There would not be any volume for it, it can't be sanctioned in racing and the cost of a fully built engine would be just too high - to sell enough of them to ever make a profit.

That is the general problem in anybody trying to make a flathead block . . . how many could you possibly sell . . . for what price?

There is probably no economic justification to do it - other than maybe somebody like Tod who is already doing a lot of this goofy vintage stuff, has foundry experience, may make his own foundry, etc.. Damn near has to be a very small, super-talented and unique situation/setup for it to have any chance to work. With that said, boy would I like a 3.5" bore, aluminum block with improved flow and replaceable liners . . . would be the "cats ass". LOL

There’s a LOT to chew on in what you have said !
First, regarding “sanctioning”. You could make. an A/B block...to perfection. That is even FORD himself couldn’t tell it from his own creation. Such a block wouldn’t be legal to run in ANY sanctioned event, I. e.- hill climbs; salt races.
Ton of $$$$ to what ??, to make a good ‘ touring’ engine, unhuh !!
Second , you want an aluminum banger block, with sleeves !
What for/use ? After the FIRST 3 main alum blk pour...years (4/5) ago, problems. I gave in. Maybe you could get this one, as I paid for best sleeves.
Anyway, he was pioneer, and as such encountered the things that alum blk can have.
Still, other wt to power ratio, no sanctioning, oh and being one of one, I couldn’t think of any reason to hang around for .... when ??

If you guys are serious about a guy being serious about building iron banger blks, check out the model A side for the name/threads of TERRY BURTZ.
He has an interesting thing going on with modern metals, 5 mains and entire kit type A/B blk; crank , rods, blk etc, etc. worth the read, IMO.
STILL NOT SANCTIONED THO.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

No.

Buttermore, perhaps?

[Dodge]

yes

[Frank Miller]

Here is what he's been doing or will be doing.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Buttermore, perhaps?

I think that is correct. You may have been thinking of the Elizabeth Taylor move "Butterfield 8", where she play a high-priced prostitute.

While I hope he is successful, I too believe that it is not economically feasible. As the population ages, the supply is going up while the demand is going down. There was a thread over on the H.A.M.B. where a guy documented his purchase of a semi load of of supposedly "good" blocks from the daughter of an engine builder. Given who the previous owner was, I would bet that the great majority of them are good. How many similar situations exist across the country"? A dozen? Perhaps even hundreds? I would bet that almost every "serious" member here (those with over 1000 posts) has at least one extra good block, and most have multiples. How about you? I know I do. I would guess there now exist well over 100,000 usable spare flathead blocks in the United States.

There may be an exception for some early 21 stud blocks, so may be a niche there, but it would be a specialty market that would bear the high cost of production.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey HardTimes: This whole thread is not about 4 cylinder banger blocks - it is in relation to a project that Tod started to create a new V8 block. Not sure if you knew that . . .

[Ol' Ron]

How come they use the aftermarket SBC in most racing applications then???

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

How come they use the aftermarket SBC in most racing applications then???

In many "run whatcha brung" racing environments, it means just that....you get to race with whatever brand or iteration of an engine you think will go faster than the other guy. In some types of traditional class racing, for instance like classes that the SCTA have traditionally developed for "flatheads" ONLY at Bonneville and other venues, they do not allow anything except REAL, HENRY-manufactured Ford blocks. Even the French flatty blocks do not qualify as "factory" Ford blocks, which they ARE NOT. This way, NO unfair advantages can be realized by possibly inherent updated features not found in traditional factory flatheads. You wanna play in the club, you gotta play by the club rules! Some "clubs" are more exclusive than others. This is more out of respect for our dear ol' flatty's ability to stand on it's own merit, rather than being allowed to be distanced by someone's slightly better block design. In short, it keeps all the apples bunched together, away from all those other bad ol' oranges. DD

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

In many "run whatcha brung" racing environments, it means just that....you get to race with whatever brand or iteration of an engine you think will go faster than the other guy. In some types of traditional class racing, for instance like classes that the SCTA have traditionally developed for "flatheads" ONLY at Bonneville and other venues, they do not allow anything except REAL, HENRY-manufactured Ford blocks. Even the French flatty blocks do not qualify as "factory" Ford blocks, which they ARE NOT. This way, NO unfair advantages can be realized by possibly inherent updated features not found in traditional factory flatheads. You wanna play in the club, you gotta play by the club rules! Some "clubs" are more exclusive than others. This is more out of respect for our dear ol' flatty's ability to stand on it's own merit, rather than being allowed to be distanced by someone's slightly better block design. In short, it keeps all the apples bunched together, away from all those other bad ol' oranges. DD

Good explanation!

[Black Fifty]

Originally Posted by bored&stroked

hey hardtimes: This whole thread is not about 4 cylinder banger blocks - it is in relation to a project that tod started to create a new v8 block. Not sure if you knew that . . .

+1

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Hey HardTimes: This whole thread is not about 4 cylinder banger blocks - it is in relation to a project that Tod started to create a new V8 block. Not sure if you knew that . . .

Re-read.
This thread started with TOD questions.
Mostly questioning who he is, his health and his business endeavors.

Tod is a man of many interests. Yeah he started out making a WINNING V8 block...but it wasn’t a flathead !
His next big goal was a flathead...A/B banger block in alum / cast iron.

He then discussed V8 flathead block making.


After his successful cast iron ( racing blk),
Only one of these blk subjects/projects have come to completion fruition ...a four banger cast iron copy of FORDS A engine, which can be seen running on u-tube (?).

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Re-read.
This thread started with TOD questions.
Mostly questioning who he is, his health and his business endeavors.

Tod is a man of many interests. Yeah he started out making a WINNING V8 block...but it wasn’t a flathead !
His next big goal was a flathead...A/B banger block in alum / cast iron.

He then discussed V8 flathead block making.


After his successful cast iron ( racing blk),
Only one of these blk subjects/projects have come to completion fruition ...a four banger cast iron copy of FORDS A engine, which can be seen running on u-tube (?).

Maybe I'm either missing or misunderstanding your point, but you are NOT coming-across as a huge fan of Tod's past accomplishments. I hope I'm wrong! DD

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Maybe I'm either missing or misunderstanding your point, but you are NOT coming-across as a huge fan of Tod's past accomplishments. I hope I'm wrong! DD

Your wrong, kinda.
I’ve been one of his biggest supporters/boosters...for a lot longer than anyone here even knew of him !

Have you ever, would you ever lend someone , who lives on different coast...Super rare equipment to make copies of ?
Enough said.

‘kinda’, meaning we have talked about having tooo much going on to get the many projects finished. I’ll leave it at that.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by tubman

I think that is correct. You may have been thinking of the Elizabeth Taylor move "Butterfield 8", where she play a high-priced prostitute.

While I hope he is successful, I too believe that it is not economically feasible. As the population ages, the supply is going up while the demand is going down. There was a thread over on the H.A.M.B. where a guy documented his purchase of a semi load of of supposedly "good" blocks from the daughter of an engine builder. Given who the previous owner was, I would bet that the great majority of them are good. How many similar situations exist across the country"? A dozen? Perhaps even hundreds? I would bet that almost every "serious" member here (those with over 1000 posts) has at least one extra good block, and most have multiples. How about you? I know I do. I would guess there now exist well over 100,000 usable spare flathead blocks in the United States

There may be an exception for some early 21 stud blocks, so may be a niche there, but it would be a specialty market that would bear the high cost of production.

Sad but true. I do know two guys in their 30s that are interested in our flathead V8s, but that isn't near enough....

[rotorwrench]

If you look at the folks that follow the Ford Barn and The HAMB, there are a lot of folks that would seriously consider purchasing a nice new block rather that tearing three or four of them apart and finding them all cracked or seriously damaged. I don't think the French SUMB truck blocks are near as available as they were for a time. I have enough stuff to build several engines if I had good blocks. My Pop sold two 49 F1 pickups without even asking me if I wanted one due to cracked blocks. He didn't think they were worth anything so he didn't even ask me about it and he gave them away too. I was not a happy camper when I found out.

[tubman]

New SBC aftermarket short blocks are in the $1500-$2500 range. They are almost a "commodity" these days. A flathead block is much more complex casting and will never be made in quantities even a fraction of the SBC's. Tod bandied about a price in the $2500 range when he initially approached this. I thought it was low then, and think so even more now. And shipping one in can be expensive and then there's sales tax. I can pull the heads off a lot of flatheads for $3000.

That's not what I'm talking about here. Two years ago, I sold my second to last good flathead block to a local guy for $800. We both walked away happy. The guy found out about me from my machinist. If he sends up another guy in the same situation, I'd let the last good one go as well. At my age, I just won't get to it. I'm sure here are lots of guys like me all over this country.

(Anyway, I have a Rocket and a '56 hemi to get to first.)

[Bored&Stroked]

Tubman . . . I want to see you build a "Rocket" . . . just not a steam powered one like that goofy guy out in the desert . . . who recently croaked when "what went up - then came down" - with no parachute! Just messing with yah! LOL

[tubman]

I guess I left out "Oldsmobile".

(This is a Ford forum, ya' know.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

I guess I left out "Oldsmobile".

(This is a Ford forum, ya' know.)

Man, those are some cute little gold-colored dingleberries glued onto that distributor. Always loved them big old Oldses, too.....even the little baby 303s! Is that one of them there starter change-over things I see sitting down on the side? DD

[tubman]

That's the stock (wrong side) starter housing). After years of searching, I finally found an aluminum switchover housing that moves the starter to the right side of the engine, away from the steering box. It's not in this picture, but right behind the engine is an adapter plate to a '32-'48 Ford, while the housing behind that is to '49-64 Ford.

The distributor is real interesting, It looks like a regular dual point Mallory "flattop", but it has a 4 lobe cam. It uses a special version of a Mallory "FlashFire" coil with two primary windings and one secondary. The points are wired separately and alternately fire each primary coil winding. It's kind of a "poor man's dual coil" in that you don't need a special cap and rotor. This is why it requires two condensers; it is in reality two separate four cylinder ignition systems, the only common part being the secondary coil winding. The coils are very difficult to find; the one I have is for a 6 volt system, but I figure if I can get the right ballast resistor, I can run it on 12 volts.

I'm sure glad you like the condensers. A good original Mallory condenser is hard enough to find, let alone two. I couldn't find 'em so I made 'em. These are the units I ended up selling because nobody else can find good ones either.

[zzlegend]

I'll call and raise you Tubman. Had these to long and now might have to find a home for them. 58 tri power with Cad Lasalle trans. Other is a 57, bored, ported and polished heads, cam, built hydramatic. Always had a thing for Olds engines. Now, back working on my flathead.

[tubman]

You win! I only bought this because it was cheap from a guy who got it with a partially done '40 Ford. He wanted an SBC, so I was there to take it off his hands. I pulled it down far enough to discover it had Gotha adjustable rockers, an Isky cam and was a fresh rebuild (about 40 years ago).

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

I'm sure glad you like the condensers. A good original Mallory condenser is hard enough to find, let alone two. I couldn't find 'em so I made 'em. These are the units I ended up selling because nobody else can find good ones either.

Hey....I knew that those cute little gold-colored chingleberries were The tubman's proprietary, one-of-a-kind, Super-Duper, re-created condensers. I only took this cheap-shot opportunity to shamefully parade them out there in the public eye for the benefit of the hobbyists that may need one. As a disinterested party, I can do that! Cute little boogers, ain't they? DD

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

I'll call and raise you Tubman. Had these to long and now might have to find a home for them. 58 tri power with Cad Lasalle trans. Other is a 57, bored, ported and polished heads, cam, built hydramatic. Always had a thing for Olds engines. Now, back working on my flathead.

Man, this page is just chocked-full of delicious eye candy! Damn, those Hydros were a beast! Thanks guys for the nostalgic moment. DD

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by tubman

You win! I only bought this because it was cheap from a guy who got it with a partially done '40 Ford. He wanted an SBC, so I was there to take it off his hands. I pulled it down far enough to discover it had Gotha adjustable rockers, an Isky cam and was a fresh rebuild (about 40 years ago).

Either way, you done good. That's a keeper for sure. I have a spaulding flame thrower for the red built motor and a starter crossover housing like the one you show.

[KiWinUS]

You guys are killing me with these cool non flathead engines. I just love old hot rod engines.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Man, this page is just chocked-full of delicious eye candy! Damn, those Hydros were a beast! Thanks guys for the nostalgic moment. DD

Yep, i go out and fire these up every couple of months just to get excited.

[dmdeaton]

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Hey....I knew that those cute little gold-colored chingleberries were The tubman's proprietary, one-of-a-kind, Super-Duper, re-created condensers. I only took this cheap-shot opportunity to shamefully parade them out there in the public eye for the benefit of the hobbyists that may need one. As a disinterested party, I can do that! Cute little boogers, ain't they? DD

DD, where can I procure a couple of those? I need 2 badly
thanks
Danny

[tubman]

Danny,

"PM" me, I have 12 left in stock from my last production run and am about to do 20 more. I get $50 each from forum members plus $8 shipping. Two would be $108. I'll take a personal check and I also have PayPal.

Denny (Tubman)

[Ol' Ron]

Can the reproduced Chevy blocks legal?? They make a bunch of them.

[Pete]

I hope these guys that are trying to produce vintage reproduction blocks are completely successful.
That should release some of the OEM blocks for sanctioned racing.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Can the reproduced Chevy blocks legal?? They make a bunch of them.

They are legal. They do not fall in the "vintage" category.